Most realistic digital piano? help!

[bunbuns]

Hi, my name is Ashley and I have have just started getting piano lessons. I am 17 and very determined I taught myself alot over the summer and am just getting professional teachings. However it is very hard to play for my teacher dynamics and pedal wise because I use a 50 dollar keyboard  I am looking for a digital upright with pedals and  a very realistic touch and sound! I live in a basmenet so a heavy upright would be a pain to get down here and would get ruined!! There are so many digital pianos online and I cant find a store in real life with a good selection to tell which digital is the best! I am not concerend with any technology I jsut want one closest to being real!! price can be no greater than 2,400 so can anyone please give me some adivce!! I have been researching alot but am not have success and want to make a good choice it is impossible to practice pedal and dynamics on my keyboard =[ thanks guys! So far the only piano I have tried out that seems ok was a casio ap-38 is it any good? ;/ are yamahas better wahhh help!

[jazzyprof]

When you say you can spend up to 2,400 is that in US $?  For a little less than $2000 you can get a Yamaha P250 keyboard.  It has weighted keys and feels very much like a real piano.  The piano sounds are fantastic.  It has onboard speakers which are pretty good.  In addition it has a special feature that allows you to feel real piano vibrations through your fingers as you play.  This is a feature few digital pianos have.  It has a very good expression pedal.  It weighs about 70 pounds so you'll need a friend to help you carry it into your basement...but it's still lighter than an upright!  I own both a Yamaha P250 and an acoustic Yamaha C3 grand.  I enjoy playing the P250 almost as much as I do the real grand.  In addition the P250 has professional midi capabilities, a sequencer, and tons of wonderful sounds including some killer harpsichords...great for Bach!

For about half that price you can get the Yamaha P120 which is smaller and lighter.  You can check out both keyboards and listen to sound samples at Yamaha's website.

I haven't actually tried a Casio but their new Casio Privia PX-400R is about $1000 and got a good review in Keyboard Magazine (December 2004, on the stands now).  Generally speaking Yamahas are more highly regarded than Casios by pros.

[bunbuns]

=D that is us dollars thank you ! IM gonna go to the site now I dont know if you know but is it safe to order any isntrument online? I am worried because i have never ordered anything that comes in a big package like an instrument would There is aslo a site called Zzoundz.com the sales are amazing but is it trustworthy? if anyone has ever bought online before to get a sale price which site do you use and were you satisfied?

[jazzyprof]

I ordered my P250 from emusicgear.com.   Free Fedex ground shipping, and they threw in the stand, a bench, and an extra pedal...all for about $1900.  The packages arrived at my door only a few days after I placed the order.  All in perfect condition.  Couldn't have been more pleased.

[Floristan]

Look at the Yamaha P-120.  It weighs 40 pounds.  It has very realistic piano sound if you use headphones.  It has 4 grand piano voices, but the primary grand voice is a sampled Yamaha concert grand.  It has jacks for 2 pedals -- sustaining and soft.

So the P-120 lists for $1200 (but you can get it for around $1000-$1100 on the Internet).  A stand can run you $50-$100 (I got a Z stand because it's adjustable).  Pedals cost about $35 each.  Good headphones run $50-$150, but you can often find good ones on sale for as little as $35.  A bench can cost $50-$500, depending on how high-end you go.  I'm not sure how much a carrying case is, but you can get one to lug it around in.

[bunbuns]

You guys are so nice! This is my first time posting on here I am so happy I didn't think anyone would even reply to me! thank you for your help I'm definately going to order a yamaha I looked at the site they sound so amazing I also looked at the  home digital pianos they have a more appealing look and I like how they have the stand to hold them up but about the p250 it seems like a big keyboard is there a stand you have for yours and does the key virbating feature happen only on that keyboard or other ones by yamaha I do like the p120 how it has the stand and all i am not really a performer I am sure you are both very experienced hehe im am a major noob! I just need the closest to real to get anywhere!

[bunbuns]

Wow I went to that site it looks alot better than zzounds.com and what great deals I cant believe they have package deals with headphones too the whole thing I see the stand now it is Great it also showed the hammer action in a diagram yes I trust this is a definately good keyboard and you even compared it to a grand I think I will go with it! Thank you very much   

[Nordlys]

I have a Roland FP8 piano. I like it very much, especially the touch, which is even better than most acoustic upright pianos. It is about 10 years old, and I always found it better than the yamaha pianos. I havent tried the newer yamahas though, they have probably improved.

[xvimbi]

I'd like to chime in regarding the Yamaha P-250. However, check out the Yamaha PF-500. It is equivalent to the P-250, but comes with a nice and stable stand, built-in 3-pedal box, and it looks good too. Stay away from Casio.

In any case, DO NOT BUY ANYTHING THAT YOU HAVE NOT CHECKED OUT FOR YOURSELF!

Don't rush things. Go to a GuitarCenter and check out all the nice Yamaha's. Don't be surprised about the action.

Fianlly: A lot of info can be found on this forum about the Yamaha's, Rolands, etc. It is worth looking at older posts.

Have fun!

[bunbuns]

Does anyone have any information about the Yamaha YDP223 ?

[xvimbi]

Does anyone have any information about the Yamaha YDP223 ?

The YDP series appears to be identical to the lower-end Clavinovas. I think the only difference (apart from the looks) is that the warranty is not three years, but only one year. I would personally stay away from them, as the P and PF series are so much more advanced for only a little bit more $$$.

[RJones]

I know that everyone here is a fan of the Yamaha and Roland keyboards (myself included) but the question was which is the MOST realistic digital piano. For that, you'll need to look at a Generalmusic Promega2/3. It's big, heavy and ugly but is the most realistic (most acoustic like).

Rodney

[xvimbi]

I know that everyone here is a fan of the Yamaha and Roland keyboards (myself included) but the question was which is the MOST realistic digital piano. For that, you'll need to look at a Generalmusic Promega2/3. It's big, heavy and ugly but is the most realistic (most acoustic like).

I think we did cover the original question in the approriate way, but if you are really looking for the most advanced digital piano on the market, check out the Post Piano:

https://www.postpiano.com/products/postpiano/index.php

https://www.pro-music-news.com/html/04/e20218po.ht

[RJones]

The post piano is nothing more than a PC running a soft sampler with a Fatar keybed in a fancy wood case. Certainly not the most advanced or innovative digital piano.

Rodney

[bunbuns]

I think Post piano is out of the question lol It seems like it weighs like 200 lbs and Im very small it must be expensive  my heart so far is sticking to the yamaha pf-500 im gonna check it out in  a store IF I can find one. It is hard to find big stores. I will have to go out of town  Ill check out as many yamhas as I can the site tho doesn't give sound samples for all thier keyboards and stuff I hope that they sound alike=| because I heard some sound samples of other digital pianos they have and they sound really nice can't wait to go shopping! I cant find any information on the Promega or how it sounds but I did see it is BIG and funky lol

[xvimbi]

The post piano is nothing more than a PC running a soft sampler with a Fatar keybed in a fancy wood case. Certainly not the most advanced or innovative digital piano.

Isn't that like every digital piano? Using a powerful CPU and a good sample is exactly the combination for getting the most realistic sound (the action, one can debate over).

[RJones]

"Isn't that like every digital piano? Using a powerful CPU and a good sample is exactly the combination for getting the most realistic sound (the action, one can debate over)."


Not exactly. Digital pianos (at least the ones on the market today, use purpose built operating systems and effects processors and DSPs. Their CPUs are not Wintel (desktop application) type devices. That's not to say that using a general purpose computing environment is bad (today) but wasn't really practicle for the last couple of decades because of (performance, reliability, licensing, software updates and compatibility, etc.)

Clearly the dedicated computing infrastructure of designs of digital pianos were vastly superior to general purpose computers. Just compare the quality of of tone and timbre from boards like the Yamaha CLP-170, Roland HP-107, GEM Promega3, and Kawai 9500 with even the best multi-gigabyte software sample.

I think it is also obvious that times are changing (dramatically). General purpose computing has become so powerful and cheap, that even features such as real-time convolution reverberation are possible (GigaPulse). If this is possible with PCs, just imagine what will be coming out with the next 1-3 generations of purpose built digital instruments.

I got off topic. ;-)

I was simply stating that the Postpiano was a general purpose computing solution that many people put together on their own, while most people (well at least me)would think of a digital piano as a purpose built device.

Rodney

[xvimbi]

"Isn't that like every digital piano? Using a powerful CPU and a good sample is exactly the combination for getting the most realistic sound (the action, one can debate over)."

Not exactly. Digital pianos (at least the ones on the market today, use purpose built operating systems and effects processors and DSPs. Their CPUs are not Wintel (desktop application) type devices. That's not to say that using a general purpose computing environment is bad (today) but wasn't really practicle for the last couple of decades because of (performance, reliability, licensing, software updates and compatibility, etc.)

I didn't intend to equate "CPU" with "Wintel". There are so many more useful and better processors/computing platforms out there than Intel has to offer (even considering the Itanium series).

Clearly the dedicated computing infrastructure of designs of digital pianos were vastly superior to general purpose computers. Just compare the quality of of tone and timbre from boards like the Yamaha CLP-170, Roland HP-107, GEM Promega3, and Kawai 9500 with even the best multi-gigabyte software sample.

I am not so sure about this, but I am no expert, so please enlighten me. I thought that digital pianos simply stored samples in memory and played them according to what key was pressed. They don't actually "produce" sound. In that respect, they are incredibly weak, because they niether have powerful CPUs, nor do they have enough memory to store high-quality samples. I don't think DSPs (and other specialized processors) play a big role, as digital pianos are not synthesizers. Since general memory is so cheap, I wish they would build digitals with, say, 5 Gb of memory and would allow to download high-quality samples. Advanced keyboards have such functionality, but they are geared towards a different market. They are overkill for somebody simply looking for a "realistic" piano.

[RJones]

Actually digital pianos ARE synthesizers and include oscillators, effects processors, filters,  samples. They generate their tones exactly the same way, BUT don't include the larger (multi-instrument) sample set, no sampling capabilities, limited sequencer, and limited (if any) voice editing.

When thinking digital piano, think synth. Even the software samplers are software synths. In GigaStudio for example, you will still see various envelope generators, filters and effects.

For example, Yamaha's S&S (sample and synthesis) engine is called AWM and is used in all their digital keyboards (from the PSR line, through the Clavinova and the Motif workstations).

Rodney

[CJHoward]

But even the Motif ES, Triton Studio/Extreme, and Fantom use 4 velocity levels at the most, which is why many(not me specifically) have turned to Kontakt, Giga, Vsampler etc.... For the ability to use a total of 128 Velocity levels .
 Yes the DPs use special processors and Operating systems, but their processors are nowhere near cutting edge. 200, maybe 300Mhz at the most. I'm Sure a Wintel machine running WindowsXP would still have enough processing power to double the performance of a DP even with the OS doing its normal background processing.
  That said, I'd like to add a disclaimer or two.
 1) I'm not a piano player, so I'm not very critical of piano tone or feel
 2) I don't believe you need 128Velocity levels to create a playable piano.
 3) I think current technology is bordering on Overkill(as far as synthesis goes)
 4) I'm not a piano player, so I'm not very critical of piano tone or feel

[xvimbi]

2) I don't believe you need 128Velocity levels to create a playable piano.

I'll translate what Rachmaninoff said in a similar situation:

Piano manufacturer: "Sergei, this digital piano has 128 velocity layers!!! Isn't this amazing?"

R: "But I need 129!"


Or what Philip J. Fry said when he learned that the hyperspace oil tanker that was ripped open by an iceberg:

Tanker manufacturer: "But we had 6000 hulls"
Fry: "Why didn't they put in 6001? When will they learn?"