What do you want to be when you grow up?

[m1469]

I am recently developing thoughts on the concept of cultural pressure to choose "who you are" and "what you want to be" when you are young, and supposedly for the rest of your life (and as your highest potential).

I believe cultural pressure to figure out who you are early on varies from culture to culture, but that most cultures have this pressure to some degree.  I am particularly interested in how you view this and/or what your experiences may be, according to whatever your cultural influences are.

[visitor]

When I grow up I  want to be born in another nation with a culture much different than the current one.

[rachmaninoff_forever]

My parents wanted me to be an NBA player, but I like piano more.

Well my mom wanted me to be an MLB player more, but whatever.

[j_menz]

I have grown up, occasional bouts of immaturity notwithstanding. I'm quite happy with the result.

[swagmaster420x]

My parents wanted me to be an NBA player, but I like piano more.

Well my mom wanted me to be an MLB player more, but whatever.

Dang, you must have been beast at basketball

[Bob]

Alive.


An adult.


Taller.

[outin]

As old as possible.

[ted]

I was very lucky with that. My parents never pressured me to define myself in terms of what I did or how it interacted with the outside world. Music made me very happy, therefore I engaged in it from a very early age. Later on, I enjoyed mathematics, therefore I studied it. In my twenties, I found satisfaction in playing tennis, therefore I indulged it. I don't recall any conscious urge to "be" anything at all, and if cultural pressure existed I suppose I must have just ignored it. I am certainly not a musician, mathematician or tennis player by most definitions.

I think it less restrictive to ask a child what he or she wants to "do" rather than "be".

[fleetfingers]

I have mixed feelings in response to your question. In my own life, some pressures put upon me have turned out to be entirely positive, and I'm grateful to those in my life who pressured me in the direction I went. On the other hand, there are areas where I wish I'd have been given some time and space to grow into myself and explore interests.

One problem is that life is short and by the time you figure out what you want to do or what you want to be, there is a whole group of people who figured it out long before you and are miles ahead. It's hard, if not impossible, to catch up sometimes. It seems natural that an older generation would encourage younger ones to avoid pitfalls and plan for a bright future. It is not easy for the one who feels too much pressure, though. And it is not always healthy. I'd like to think there is such a thing as a healthy amount of pressure - or maybe there is a better word to describe the healthy kind.

[dima_76557]

What do you want to be when you grow up?

I don't wanna grow up

[fleetfingers]

Charming.

[ted]

One problem is that life is short and by the time you figure out what you want to do or what you want to be, there is a whole group of people who figured it out long before you and are miles ahead. It's hard, if not impossible, to catch up sometimes.

I have always been a contemplative rather than a competitive spirit, so this has not bothered me. What's the point of pushing and shoving anyway ? All my contemporaries, now in their sixties, who pushed and shoved, now drink too much, have mental problems, high blood pressure and strings of broken marriages. Figured out what ? In creative music, only you can figure out which sounds you enjoy and how to make them. What other people do doesn't matter. I say take it easy.

[rachmaninoff_forever]

Dang, you must have been beast at basketball

I started when I was 4 and played competitively up until Junior year.

Baseball was up until freshman year.

[fleetfingers]

I have always been a contemplative rather than a competitive spirit, so this has not bothered me. What's the point of pushing and shoving anyway ? All my contemporaries, now in their sixties, who pushed and shoved, now drink too much, have mental problems, high blood pressure and strings of broken marriages. Figured out what ? In creative music, only you can figure out which sounds you enjoy and how to make them. What other people do doesn't matter. I say take it easy.

I can see how what I wrote sounded competitive (maybe it is?). My comment does not come from someone who pushes and shoves. I feel pushed and shoved myself and often have anxieties about pressures around me. So, I do not disagree with your sentiments. I admire your ability to ignore the pressures. I am not so good at that. 

When I wrote that particular part of my post, I was thinking of people I personally know. For example, a close friend of mine is a guy who had trained as a welder and built up a successful business on his own property. He loved what he did but then, in his thirties, had a daughter born with a heart condition. After what she went through, he was inspired to become a physician. He was 100% serious and moved forward, only to realize shortly after that it was not a good time in his life to start something like that. He possibly could have done it but ultimately decided that the cost wasn't worth it. It's not the end of the world, and he is happy with his life. I just meant to point out that timing with some things (especially when preparing for future vocation) matters and is something to think about.

[fleetfingers]

I started when I was 4 and played competitively up until Junior year.

Baseball was up until freshman year.

Did you enjoy playing those sports but like music better? Or did you feel pushed into something you didn't want to do? Just curious.

[m1469]

I am also interested along these lines in conjunction with -but not limited to- the following concepts:

1.  Who or what is ultimately being served by people making these "personal decisions" about the direction of their lives, within these cultures.

2.  How comfortable individuals are with making these decisions, or having made them, with only partial (minuscule?) understandings of the overriding governmental influences that are working within these cultures - including decisions made and actions taken under the inevitable influence of illusion.

3.  How these decisions are or are not linked to one's sense of identity, as well as the concept of success and failure.

[ted]

When I wrote that particular part of my post, I was thinking of people I personally know. For example, a close friend of mine is a guy who had trained as a welder and built up a successful business on his own property. He loved what he did but then, in his thirties, had a daughter born with a heart condition. After what she went through, he was inspired to become a physician. He was 100% serious and moved forward, only to realize shortly after that it was not a good time in his life to start something like that. He possibly could have done it but ultimately decided that the cost wasn't worth it. It's not the end of the world, and he is happy with his life. I just meant to point out that timing with some things (especially when preparing for future vocation) matters and is something to think about.

I see. Yes, that was an extreme goal. While I have to applaud his drive, it is also necessary to retain common sense and feasibility. In any case, there would be much he could do to help children in those circumstances short of the colossal expense and grind of medical study. I am pleased things turned out all right in the end. Moderation is certainly not a popular concept in today's world. We are beset by a preoccupation with extremes of every imaginable type. Nobody wants anything ordinary any more, and I think our young people are the worse for it. Most of my son's friends take antidepressants for things which are no more than life's normal ups and downs. A reasonable degree of contentment isn't good enough, and many seem to expect nothing short of continued ecstasy. Even in our own little world of piano playing and this forum, there is continued emphasis on hardest, greatest, fastest, biggest, richest and so on.

You are right though, some paths in life are more time-critical than others.

[rachmaninoff_forever]

Did you enjoy playing those sports but like music better? Or did you feel pushed into something you didn't want to do? Just curious.

I enjoyed all of it.  I still play basketball regularly, but just not competitively.

As for piano, my parents actually don't want me to pursue it anymore.  

[theholygideons]

I enjoyed all of it.  I still play basketball regularly, but just not competitively.

As for piano, my parents actually don't want me to pursue it anymore. 

so you're quitting piano? 

[cabbynum]

so you're quitting piano? 

Don't quit

[swagmaster420x]

dont give on music D:
especially if u wanna be doctor, cuz music degree (shockingly not premed) gets into med school the most out of any other bachelor's

[fleetfingers]

I am also interested along these lines in conjunction with -but not limited to- the following concepts:

1.  Who or what is ultimately being served by people making these "personal decisions" about the direction of their lives, within these cultures.

2.  How comfortable individuals are with making these decisions, or having made them, with only partial (minuscule?) understandings of the overriding governmental influences that are working within these cultures - including decisions made and actions taken under the inevitable influence of illusion.

3.  How these decisions are or are not linked to one's sense of identity, as well as the concept of success and failure.

We start making decisions very early on in life, even before we have gained any earthly experience or wisdom to really understand what we are deciding or the consequences that will come, whether immediate or in the distant future or anywhere in between on the timeline of our lives. At certain ages, it's normal to stand back and analyze the influences that have shaped our lives and why we made decisions that we made. I think almost everyone does that. I'm not sure what you're getting at with these questions.

[kakeithewolf]

What do I want to be? Well, that hardly matters. What matters is what circumstance allows me to be. Ideally, I'd like to be a doctor, have a family, and live under particular guidelines. But I was born at the worst possible time, as my college would intersect with a massive economic depression. So, I won't get to be what I want.

[Bob]

There isn't a great time for an economic downturn.  If you're out of college, property values go down, rent goes up, etc.  If you're pre-college, costs of college rise.  Everybody gets screwed!  Haha.

[cabbynum]

For a while there I wanted to be Theoretic astrophysicist. Things were lining up to go well with that to. But I then found something I feel much stronger about . Music.

So now what I want to be when I grow up is a conductor

[kakeithewolf]

There isn't a great time for an economic downturn.  If you're out of college, property values go down, rent goes up, etc.  If you're pre-college, costs of college rise.  Everybody gets screwed!  Haha.

The only time a depression of the scale we're going to be experiencing is necessary is when significant correction is needed in order to adhere to the rough form of an Elliot wave. So, basically, what would have been my college years intersects with what is likely the end of a Grand Supercycle. Yippee for me, and the rest of humanity too.

[m1469]

(...) what is likely the end of a Grand Supercycle.

I agree, but it's also the beginning of one, as well, and I believe it's a new one.  A new Era.

The Economic turn has greatly altered where I believed my life and career were going.  There's been a lot for me to consider because I was -I thought- in the middle of trying to achieve a new level of musicianship in my professional life.  I happened to have been focusing primarily on piano during that time, and had made a (very big) decision to focus less on singing.  Sometimes I think, what if I had focused more on singing and reached another level in my profession with that?  Maybe moved to be part of an Opera House, and then the economic cycle goes downhill, and suddenly Opera Houses/Companies and Symphonies are closing ... what would I do then?  I would figure it out, I guess.  But, I made a very pivotal decision when the economy was great, a couple of years before the downturn, and the turn in the economy was another pivotal point which has seemed to become quite final.

[kakeithewolf]

I agree, but it's also the beginning of one, as well, and I believe it's a new one.  A new Era.

The Economic turn has greatly altered where I believed my life and career were going.  There's been a lot for me to consider because I was -I thought- in the middle of trying to achieve a new level of musicianship in my professional life.  I happened to have been focusing primarily on piano during that time, and had made a (very big) decision to focus less on singing.  Sometimes I think, what if I had focused more on singing and reached another level in my profession with that?  Maybe moved to be part of an Opera House, and then the economic cycle goes downhill, and suddenly Opera Houses/Companies and Symphonies are closing ... what would I do then?  I would figure it out, I guess.  But, I made a very pivotal decision when the economy was great, a couple of years before the downturn, and the turn in the economy was another pivotal point which has seemed to become quite final.

Here's the problem: Grand Supercycle depressions last a VERY long time. The last depression that was part of the cycle was the Great Depression, which lasted over 15 years. The end of a Grand Supercycle is drastically larger and longer than the previous depression is.

If people think that that sad, poor, pathetic excuse of a recession we had was the worst it was going to be, they are sorely mistaken. Another bubble, a much bigger one, is still to burst.

[m1469]

Here's the problem: Grand Supercycle depressions last a VERY long time. The last depression that was part of the cycle was the Great Depression, which lasted over 15 years. The end of a Grand Supercycle is drastically larger and longer than the previous depression is.

If people think that that sad, poor, pathetic excuse of a recession we had was the worst it was going to be, they are sorely mistaken. Another bubble, a much bigger one, is still to burst.

Well, I don't necessarily agree nor disagree.  I am trying to watch the trends in how people think.  For me, the economic downturn has felt extremely personal, and I have had the impression that there are a lot of people still floating merrily along, feeling no compassion for those caught up in the downturn, thinking they have escaped unscathed, and perhaps believing they are somehow a better form of person because of it.  For now I will just say there were a lot of contrasts suddenly being drawn in my perception of life and the people within it.  I found it difficult to relate with certain mindsets.

What I see is that, what has felt personal (and what still does, oftentimes), is probably not as personal as it seems.  I have been/felt/am completely stuck professionally.  And what I am finding is that there is a trend of stuckness for quite a number of people - maybe not all professionally, but in big ways.  Also, I am starting to believe that those who went unscathed before, will not actually go unscathed.  There are people whose lives seemed perfectly afloat who are now quivering a bit in their boots because it seems possible their position could be cut from what seemed to be a very strong program.  I don't wish ill upon those people, but I am certainly happy that that precise point in mine and my husband's life is going on 4 years behind us.  It's been a fairly excruciating turning of the wheels since the Spring of 2010.

Another trend, is that people who are actually feeling affected by the turn, are re-evaluating what is important to them.  I believe that this, coupled with the severity of the economic downturn, will have the largest and most dramatic impact on the world because people are permanently changing how they live (and think).  I can't speak for everybody, but I have been re-evaluating my sense of identity, as well, and I can only imagine that I am not alone in that.  There are definitely becoming some marked lines in who I was before and who I am now, and what I feel matters in life.   And, my life is adjusting based on that, as well.  There are certain mindsets I am moving away from, and new ones which I am actively embracing, and while it is in my nature to do so and to be moving as I am, I probably would not be moving to the extent I am if I had the same types of beliefs that I had before the downturn.  It has been extremely uncomfortable, but I can't say I am regretful about what I have learned and what I am learning.  I would of course like to continue developing in how I can truly utilize what I am learning.