Theory and harmony

[ignaceii]

First, I want to refer to the topic here under I will introduce myself, for it is important to read my story, if you want of course. I cannot stress enough the fact that we don't know anything about the members on the forum. I got the idea from a website course. Doing so allows to prevent misunderstandings, argues,...
So now for this topic. It is true that I took it out of another topic Am I advanced as reply because I thought it was more important for me to get feedback, so here we are.

I didn't follow any music school, if you read my story. So I'm missing the whole theory cycle, although I am quite good in sight reading.
My story also contains the fact that my heath is not so good.
I would like to put energy, of which I don't have much, in theory and harmony, in order to progress in the domain of analysis of pieces, being able to play by memory...
Only, once the romantics come around the corner, harmonies are complexer, lot of chords, triads, and so on. I think these things should be trained upfront, by ear training, theory and harmony.Otherwise I feel quite comfortable as it is. But it keeps pursuing me...

To end, something interesting to know.
I started the keyboard actually based on a different notation method called klavarskribo www.klavarskribo.nl/
It even has a book on harmony in the language. More, there was recently a 2 pages article on it in Piano International.
So, it isn't a toy, and gained more widespread intrest.
But as it is so easy to play with klavarskribo, you tend to go to fast, and not slower and deeper.
I must say, when I play a nocturne from Chopin in difficult keys, lots of chords, I am tempted to take my klavar transcription edition, and I don't have to think anymore, the keys to play are written on the page.

 Bye


Add link to you tubes video on klavarskribo, in dutch. Hope the pictures tell the simple story.
[ Invalid YouTube link ]

English

https://www.klavarvereniging.nl/index.php/video-klavar-uitleg

[kopower]

A strong part of theory is understanding notations and notes and if you can already sight read well you are already there !!

Maybe others more advanced can comment more.

There are some theory books you can pick up.

I flicked through a more advance theory book and it focused a lot on composing by just writting notes - I guess you have to know harmonies, and keys very very well.

[ignaceii]

Thanks ko,
I expected some more help but yours is ok.
I've got a book on harmony at the piano. Think it is good, in dutch. Circle of fifths.
As you say, as a sight reader, is it a must. Can help.
To play from memory, it IS a must. Is that it ?

Did take a look at klavarskribo. I think there is an english version in the site built in.

Certainly googling klavarskribo gives more info in english.

Anyway strange for a students corner that my question remains a bit ignored. But I will wait.

[lelle]

Thanks ko,
I expected some more help but yours is ok.
I've got a book on harmony at the piano. Think it is good, in dutch. Circle of fifths.
As you say, as a sight reader, is it a must. Can help.
To play from memory, it IS a must. Is that it ?

Did take a look at klavarskribo. I think there is an english version in the site built in.

Certainly googling klavarskribo gives more info in english.

Anyway strange for a students corner that my question remains a bit ignored. But I will wait.

Reading your original post I can't find the actual question. Could you explain in more detail what you want help with?

[ignaceii]

The question was a bit embedded in the question, but I understand.
Question.
Is the knowledge of harmony and eartraining that is a part of the learning
Process helpful in order not to be so dependant on the sight reading itself ?
And second can it help, or is it even a must to do harmony in order to be able to play from memory?
And third perhaps can it help analyzing a piece, so that tne piece becomes a book I can read and hear without piano ?

That was the reason for including the link to klavarskribo and a video on youtube, as in klavarskribo you don't need to decypher difficult chords, because the translation step is being done for you, and you only see the keys, on the paper indicate in white bullets for white keys, and black for black keys.

Hope this helps. Thanks for looking at the video,klavar was my companion for 20 years.

[lelle]

Is the knowledge of harmony and eartraining that is a part of the learning
Process helpful in order not to be so dependant on the sight reading itself ?
And second can it help, or is it even a must to do harmony in order to be able to play from memory?
And third perhaps can it help analyzing a piece, so that tne piece becomes a book I can read and hear without piano?

I played pieces from memory, having learned them from the score, long before I learned theory and harmony. However, theory and eartraining are very helpful. Theory allows you to learn and recognize patterns and chords quicker, and as long as the music is tonal it is easier to know which the next chord is lkely to be before lookng at the score. It absolutely helps in analyzing the piece, understanding the structure and how the composer works with his material. For me theory allows my memorization and understanding of the music to be better.

 I think eartraining will help you more in reading the score like a book (and you need good sight reading too). I can make an approximate estimation of how something sounds by looking at the score but I need to play it to really find out how it sounds, and I think it is because my eartraining is less developed.

[ignaceii]

Thank you.
Predicting what a composer will have written seems doubtful, but I understand.
That was the reason for posting klavarskribo. It's like driving on automatic pilot.

https://www.klavarvereniging.nl/index.php/video-klavar-uitleg

Harmony tends to be dull, but the book harmonisation at the piano takes a different approach.
I'll see. Not a piece of cake.

[awesom_o]

People who do not understand harmony well are dull.

Harmony itself is not dull. 

[ignaceii]

I really have to pick my words correctly. What you say is a logical flaw. That is like saying that if you find maths dull, you yourself are dull, and this goes for anything.
I said tend, or better, has the name to be dull, therefor I didn't say I find it dull.
Think first before you write, and do not project your vision on others. Don't get personal ok ?

[awesom_o]

That is like saying that if you find maths dull, you yourself are dull, and this goes for anything.

I do find maths dull, therefore I am quite dull in maths. 
Nothing personal, my friend.

[ignaceii]

Dull means boaring. A person can be dull, but you can't be dull in maths, you are just not good in maths, big difference. I may, i said may find harmony dull, but therefor I'm not dull, I would just not like to do harmony, as you maths.

So, little class in vocabulary. Nothing wrong, but you see how words can turn a sentence into an insult. But this is a mistake of the word dull.

Capito amigo. Allez, harmonie alors. Circle of fifths that's funny...

[awesom_o]

Dull means boaring.

A boar is a large mammal with tusks. Essentially a wild pig.

I meant dull as in the opposite of bright 

[lelle]

People who do not understand harmony well are dull.

Harmony itself is not dull. 

*High five!*

[ted]

People who do not understand harmony well are dull.

Harmony itself is not dull.  

Like many of your statements on this forum, it makes me think, and in an old man that is not a bad thing at all. You are so right. In fact, there are two aspects at work when we talk about "harmony", or indeed, "rhythm", "melody" or anything else. The intuitive perception and individual expression of these so called elements of music are not dull, but are the very essence of life. The trouble begins when players view them as cold, immutably external, logical rules, ordained by musical magisteria of the past and divorced from the immediacy of aural response and spontaneous impulse. For this obstruction I suppose we can thank the systems of musical education.

No better illustration than your own wonderful interpretations of Chopin. When you play, say, 25/1, with its many exquisite harmonic transitions, I'll bet you are not thinking in terms of "Here I am playing an A major arpeggio and pretty soon I'll go into D sixth." If so, and you can produce the results you do, then you are a better man than I am. I am willing to bet there is much more going on in your brain than that.

It is how we perceive something, not its logical definition, which matters. Of course harmony (or rhythm or anything else) is going to be dull if we merely see it as a collection of rigid commandments. But what player or musician in his right mind would do that ?

[awesom_o]

The trouble begins when players view them as cold, immutably external, logical rules, ordained by musical magisteria of the past and divorced from the immediacy of aural response and spontaneous impulse. For this obstruction I suppose we can thank the systems of musical education.

This is why it's so important to learn about harmony AT the keyboard through improvisation, so that it doesn't become reduced to the status of math homework....divorced from the beautiful feelings associated with actual music.

As far as interpretation goes.... it's very important to develop your own individual style of musical reaction to harmonic change.

Every chord, every interval, indeed every OUNCE of music at the very cellular level, has a unique emotional meaning for everyone.

 Our duty as artists is to develop that uniqueness, to show the unique beauty of individual perspective in every work that we play, and to eventually of course build our own unique world through the craft of composition.

[ignaceii]

A boar is a large mammal with tusks. Essentially a wild pig.

I meant dull as in the opposite of bright 

Harmony is bright. The rest is in the dark.

[ignaceii]

That's why my dutch book on Harmony at the piano, stressing the importance of improvisation must be a fine book.
I don't doubt a minute.
Ok it's useful... that's for sure.