I HAVE A FRIEND WHO'S TRYING TO CONVERT ME TO CHRISTIANITY HELPPP...!!!

[theholygideons]

I recently became friends with a guy who I met playing tennis with. He has been non-stop pestering me about how god is true, and that he fulfills all his prophecies, and that it is his job to make ignorant people find god. Me being someone who studies biology and chemistry, I just can't see how someone could put so much faith into this one system, which like most constructs has its flaws. I find it frustrating that he can't see that it is the choice of others to decide whether or not they want to believe in god. What would be a polite way to reject his offer? He is far too persistent and relies on the logical fallacy that once you see the deeper meanings behind god's teachings, then you will understand his greatness. I don't want to offend him, because he is good to play tennis with :p. I have a problem with people who actively try and convert other people. Religion should not be a product that is marketed to other people through high pressure personal selling, this is terrible.

P.S., J.S. Bach is my God, and no i'm not religious, i'm all aesthetics brah. 

[faulty_damper]

You have a number of ways to respond.
1. Be straight forward and say how you feel, including how he makes you uncomfortable.
2. Stop playing tennis with him if he doesn't back off.
3. Tell him that God says accepting others the way they are regardless of their beliefs is the Christian way.  It says so in the bible.   

Use the bible against this bigot.  I hate these kinds of people.  I had a boss tell me that I'd go to hell for not believing in her god.  Anyway, Good luck!

[theholygideons]

ooo nice. i'll pick step 3.
do you know exactly which chapter the bible says this? give him a taste of his own medicine. :p

[faulty_damper]

I'm pretty sure your "friend" will know which chapter and verse since he's such a bible-hugger.  If not, then accuse him of being a bad Christian since he doesn't even know what chapter and verse it is. 

[perfect_pitch]

I have a problem with people who actively try and convert other people. Religion should not be a product that is marketed to other people through high pressure personal selling, this is terrible.

Exactly... Try this method - 3 easy words.

"*** off, ***".     

That's the nice version...

[theholygideons]

Exactly... Try this method - 3 easy words.

"*** off, ***".     

That's the nice version...

But then i'll lose my hitting partner!!!
lol, he kept me locked in his car (probably on purpose) while he tried to explain why the bible is conclusive evidence of god's existence, when it's not even a freaking primary source of information.

[rangerx]

I live by one rule  THE TRUTH WILL SET YOU FREE
be up front and tell this person you have your own set of values
and lets enjoy this wonderful day as friends

[thalbergmad]

I find it difficult to make friends with Tambo Bangers. You cannot reason with them or debate with them. The bible for them is 100% perfect and anything that points to the contrary is the work of the devil.

Regretfully, there is little that can be done and he is likely to be blinkered for the rest of his life.

Thal

[ahinton]

I find it difficult to make friends with Tambo Bangers. You cannot reason with them or debate with them. The bible for them is 100% perfect and anything that points to the contrary is the work of the devil.

Regretfully, there is little that can be done and he is likely to be blinkered for the rest of his life.

Yes - the one vital word is "avoid". Find out about Christianity and Christian teachings and practice for yourself and deduce from such researchg what, if anything, makes sense to you and what you can or can't identify with, rather than being blasted at by an evangelist.

Best,

Alistair

[kakeithewolf]

I find it difficult to make friends with Tambo Bangers. You cannot reason with them or debate with them. The bible for them is 100% perfect and anything that points to the contrary is the work of the devil.

Regretfully, there is little that can be done and he is likely to be blinkered for the rest of his life.

Thal

You need to do a debate with me some time, then. I'd be quite happy to prove you wrong.

[thalbergmad]

Are you a tambo banger??

Thal

[kakeithewolf]

Are you a tambo banger??

Thal

Depends on your definition of the term.

[thalbergmad]

Do you think the Bible is 100% accurate??

Thal

[ahinton]

Are you a tambo banger??

Tambourines have their uses and places. The percussion section of a symphony orchestra is as good an example of both as any.

Best,

Alistair

[ahinton]

Do you think the Bible is 100% accurate??

100% accurate? It's not even 100% present!

Best,

Alistair

[kakeithewolf]

Do you think the Bible is 100% accurate??

Thal

In a perfect system of translation, yes. But every version we have was interpreted and translated by people who render information from a fallible and limited perspective (as they proceed to do with all given information). So do I believe any given interpretation or translation is completely accurate? No, I don't.

I'm of a degree of significant leniency. The ambiguity of Genesis allows for the possibility of scientifically accepted methods of genesis (patheogenesis and abiogenesis) to be the possible used methods of a creation process that spans 7 ages of undefined and likely chronologically unequal length. This allows for the flawed theories of Neo-Darwinian evolution and the Big Bang theory to hold true whilst not running counter to the concept of an omnidimensional construct that provides a source for matter and energy.

So, yes, I believe the Bible, in a system without user error, is perfectly accurate. As well as the concept of the cooperation of religion and science bound together by Boolean logic.

[Bob]

Tell the friend that the Necronomicon says the Bible isn't true.  If he doesn't believe it, he can check for himself.  There are copies at Yale, Harvard, the British Museum, the Bibliothèque nationale de France, Univ of Buenos Aires, and Miskatonic University.




Hm.  *Bob considers ordering a copy through the library just to freak out the librarians.*

[swagmaster420x]

hooray for the necronomicon!!
you should take the necronomicon to your friend and see how he reacts11)

[swagmaster420x]

In a perfect system of translation, yes. But every version we have was interpreted and translated by people who render information from a fallible and limited perspective (as they proceed to do with all given information). So do I believe any given interpretation or translation is completely accurate? No, I don't.

I'm of a degree of significant leniency. The ambiguity of Genesis allows for the possibility of scientifically accepted methods of genesis (patheogenesis and abiogenesis) to be the possible used methods of a creation process that spans 7 ages of undefined and likely chronologically unequal length. This allows for the flawed theories of Neo-Darwinian evolution and the Big Bang theory to hold true whilst not running counter to the concept of an omnidimensional construct that provides a source for matter and energy.

So, yes, I believe the Bible, in a system without user error, is perfectly accurate. As well as the concept of the cooperation of religion and science bound together by Boolean logic.

in terms of christians, your beliefs are pretty singular, lol

[kakeithewolf]

in terms of christians, your beliefs are pretty singular, lol

Somewhat. On both sides of the coin, atheism and theism, you have the same inevitable human inefficacy: The loud and dumb masses drown on the restrained and learned few. Of course, where existentialism and philosophy divaricate into Boolean syncretism and autonomic nihilism, you can glean that only one end result is mathematically supportable: The one that indicates a state of 1 as the beginning and end result of scrutiny.

[johannesbrahms]

3. Tell him that God says accepting others the way they are regardless of their beliefs is the Christian way.  It says so in the bible.   

Where exactly in the Bible does God say that, if you don't mind me asking?  I'm honestly wanting to know.

[Bob]

Judge not, lest ye be judged yourselfnesses ye thee 'n stuff.

[perfect_pitch]

But then i'll lose my hitting partner!!!
lol, he kept me locked in his car (probably on purpose) while he tried to explain why the bible is conclusive evidence of god's existence, when it's not even a freaking primary source of information.

Given that he kept you in his locked car to babble on about the bible - I would have gone with my initial response.

I'd say stuff the fact that he's your hitting partner... You may one day wake up tied to a chair in a Saw-like scenario about to die unless you confess to loving Jebus.     

[iansinclair]

On the whole, I find myself agreeing with Kakiethewolf on most of what was said about the Bible.

And I suppose, since I am ordained and a Christian, I should really stay out of this!  The real problem with your friend, though, is that he is impolite.  For myself, I have always been very glad to see a person accept Christ, but I believe that I can say that, although I am somewhat saddened when someone rejects the message, I do not press them on the subject.

Accepting others, regardless of their belief system (or lack of it), is fundamental (the actual Commandment involved is not "judge not..." but "love thy neighbour..." by the way; there are no limits on who is defined as "neighbour") to Christianity, and most loving approach is to live as good a life one's self as one can and in that way lead.  One cannot push.

Much evil has been done over the millenia by a "do it my way or else" point of view -- on the part of all belief systems, including atheism (which is a belief system).

[thalbergmad]

The real problem with your friend, though, is that he is impolite. 

His real problem is that he does not realise he is being impolite. Similarly, the smartly dressed young men who rung my doorbell whilst I was watching the rugby did not realise they were being impolite, until I told them.

As with all religions, it is the fanatics that are the problem and Christianity seems to have their fair share of those. I can tolerate any belief system as long as it does not attempt to rubbish other faiths, reserve heaven only for themselves and eternal hell for everyone else.

This forum was so much more peaceful when Saint Susan of PA left and took her intolerance and 6,000 year old Grand Canyon with her.

Peace brothers.

Thal

[future_maestro]

You have a number of ways to respond.
1. Be straight forward and say how you feel, including how he makes you uncomfortable.
2. Stop playing tennis with him if he doesn't back off.
3. Tell him that God says accepting others the way they are regardless of their beliefs is the Christian way.  It says so in the bible.   

Use the bible against this bigot.  I hate these kinds of people.  I had a boss tell me that I'd go to hell for not believing in her god.  Anyway, Good luck!

The Bible (God) does not mean that in terms of religion, it does say however that some people are lost and will never come to Him because of their stubborn hearts. These people WILL be cast into hell. The Bible is very clear that you can ONLY go to heaven by believing in Jesus.

If what he is saying is bothering you that much, then just tell him that you are not ready to accept Christ right now. He has a right to speak just like you. You might change your mind though when you're on your deathbed and your either going to a place where you will be happy beyond belief, or you will be going to a place of the most unthinkable torment, there is NO in between.

The choice, is wholly in your hands, make the right one.

[j_menz]

your either going to a place where you will be happy beyond belief, or you will be going to a place of the most unthinkable torment, there is NO in between.

You'd better hope God is more forgiving than apostrophe man on occasions.

You have Book, chapter, verse reference to support that? The unthinkable torment bit, I mean.

[theholygideons]

You'd better hope God is more forgiving than apostrophe man on occasions.

You have Book, chapter, verse reference to support that? The unthinkable torment bit, I mean.

there's always purgatory, which is the intermediate. Or you could decompose back into the atoms that make up this universe. I like that idea, it's much more logical and spiritual in that we form part of something much greater or that we are all interrelated in the most basic sense.

[kakeithewolf]

there's always purgatory, which is the intermediate. Or you could decompose back into the atoms that make up this universe. I like that idea, it's much more logical and spiritual in that we form part of something much greater or that we are all interrelated in the most basic sense.

Purgatory is a myth in Catholicism. Nothing outside of the Apocrypha points to it existing.

[swagmaster420x]

Purgatory is a myth in Catholicism. Nothing outside of the Apocrypha points to it existing.

don't catholics firmly believe in Catholicism?

[j_menz]

Purgatory is a myth in Catholicism. Nothing outside of the Apocrypha points to it existing.

Purgatory is a doctrine of Catholicism, not a myth of it.

And "the Apocrypha" are canonical to Catholicism.

Do you know sufficient history of the canon of the Bible to say that they are wrong? Or is your belief in the non canonical status of the Apocrypha simply a doctrine you have uncritically adopted?

[swagmaster420x]

Purgatory is a doctrine of Catholicism, not a myth of it.

And "the Apocrypha" are canonical to Catholicism.

Do you know sufficient history of the canon of the Bible to say that they are wrong? Or is your belief in the non canonical status of the Apocrypha simply a doctrine you have uncritically adopted?

yo, i read pedro paramo, a work of magical realism, and one of its most deeply embedded motifs was the landscape being a purgatory. it was written by a catholic author (juan rulfo) and catholic themes, (like PENITENCE) are extremely present throughout. the existence of purgatory is one. im pretty sure that it's not a myth among catholics

[outin]

You might change your mind though when you're on your deathbed and your either going to a place where you will be happy beyond belief, or you will be going to a place of the most unthinkable torment, there is NO in between.

I really don't mind, I am comfortable to take the risk. Probably one of the easiest risk assesment to make in my life. That and not sleeping with garlic every night

I am not sure how happy I could be in that place anyway, considering the type of people who will be there...But I am glad if they are happy, I wish them no harm, even if they do annoy me every now and then with their behavior.

[emill]

I HAVE A FRIEND WHO'S TRYING TO CONVERT ME TO CHRISTIANITY HELPPP...!!!

conversion to Christianity is really not such a bad idea .... but your friend's methods is to say the least irritating!   Perhaps it is time to be "brutally" frank. Good luck!

Purgatory is a doctrine of Catholicism, not a myth of it. 

TRUE !!!  the question is NOT whether it is supported by the bible or not, as it is a doctrine formulated by the Council of Trent (16th century) of the Roman Catholic Church.

As a Catholic we have always been taught that Christ continues to inspire and teach his church through his apostles even long after his "death". So that there are a good number of Catholic teachings and doctrines which cannot be found in the bible.  How does one know therefore that the teaching or doctrine is indeed from GOD or GOD inspired? The Catholic church tells us 3 possible ways:

1. When the pope says so or speaks "ex cathedra" (papal infallibility).
2. When the bishops of the world independently declare with unanimity that a "teaching or doctrine" is God inspired.
3. When a teaching or doctrine is declared as from GOD or GOD inspired by an ecumenical council like the Council of Trent.

This is therefore a basic difference between Catholicism and Protestantism.  The latter always must seek biblical support for a teaching or doctrine, while the former does not always for the reason previously stated.  PURGATORY therefore is a real Catholic doctrine and not a myth.

[ahinton]

I HAVE A FRIEND WHO'S TRYING TO CONVERT ME TO CHRISTIANITY HELPPP...!!!

conversion to Christianity is really not such a bad idea

Provided that is oneself that's doing the "converting" based upon one's own conclusions from personal experience, researches etc.

but your friend's methods is to say the least irritating!

Some friend indeed!

TRUE !!!  the question is NOT whether it is supported by the bible or not, as it is a doctrine formulated by the Council of Trent (16th century) of the Roman Catholic Church.

As a Catholic we have always been taught that Christ continues to inspire and teach his church through his apostles even long after his "death". So that there are a good number of Catholic teachings and doctrines which cannot be found in the bible.  How does one know therefore that the teaching or doctrine is indeed from GOD or GOD inspired? The Catholic church tells us 3 possible ways:

1. When the pope says so or speaks "ex cathedra" (papal infallibility).
2. When the bishops of the world independently declare with unanimity that a "teaching or doctrine" is God inspired.
3. When a teaching or doctrine is declared as from GOD or GOD inspired by an ecumenical council like the Council of Trent.

This is therefore a basic difference between Catholicism and Protestantism.  The latter always must seek biblical support for a teaching or doctrine, while the former does not always for the reason previously stated.  PURGATORY therefore is a real Catholic doctrine and not a myth.

There are no end of problems with all of this in principle. Firstly, the Bible is a multi-author work written over several generations some two millennia ago in a language unknown today other than to certain Biblical scholars even in the areas in which it was written. Secondly, we almost certainly do not have the entire work today. Thirdly, as society today would be unrecognisable in almost every aspect to people in the Middle East in Biblical times, the Bible would be written very differently (in terms of its content) had Jesus Christ been born 2,000 years later than He was. Fourthly, there are the fundamental differences not only between Catholicism and Protestantism that you highlight here but also between other branches of Christian practice such as Coptic, Greek Orthodox, Russian Orthodox and the rest.

This being the case, the OP's Christian "friend" might be trying to convert the OP to a quite different flavour of Christianity that would be the case were that "friend" of a different Christian persuasion than is the case. Also, forceful attempts at "conversion" all too often smack of the kind of evangelism that one encounters within politics, multi-level marketing and other things besides religion and should at all times be taken with a ton of salt.

Best,

Alistair

[emill]

There are no end of problems with all of this in principle. Firstly, the Bible is a multi-author work written over several generations some two millennia ago in a language unknown today other than to certain Biblical scholars even in the areas in which it was written. Secondly, we almost certainly do not have the entire work today. Thirdly, as society today would be unrecognisable in almost every aspect to people in the Middle East in Biblical times, the Bible would be written very differently (in terms of its content) had Jesus Christ been born 2,000 years later than He was. Fourthly, there are the fundamental differences not only between Catholicism and Protestantism that you highlight here but also between other branches of Christian practice such as Coptic, Greek Orthodox, Russian Orthodox and the rest. 

No disagreement with what you say ....
I was trying to clarify the doctrine of "Purgatory" from the viewpoint of a Roman Catholic. Purgatory was described as - ". . a myth in Catholicism. Nothing outside of the Apocrypha points to it existing." by theholygideons.

I tried pointing out that in Roman Catholicism, Jesus continues to teach and inspire his Church even long after his "death" through his apostles (or his bishops & priests) and that there are ways that we Catholics accept that indeed a teaching or principle or doctrine is GOD inspired and "gospel truth" even if there are no references from the bible,  IF..... 1)  the pope says so or speaks "ex cathedra" (papal infallibility), 2) when the bishops of the world independently declare a teaching or doctrine or belief with unanimity and 3) when a teaching or doctrine is declared as from GOD or GOD inspired by an ecumenical council.  The bible is sparse or has nothing about Purgatory, but the Council of Trent (an ecumenical council) declared it as doctrine.

[ted]

To the original poster I say real friendship of any depth ought to accommodate these things. Dear friends I have had since my youth embrace all varieties of religion, complete nonsense to me, and they remain dear, sixty years later, nonetheless. In fact, their views on most things are diametrically opposed to mine, and one delightful aspect of true friendship is that we can speak our minds to one another about anything without reservation. It doesn't matter.

[perfect_pitch]

I see where this thread is going...

[thalbergmad]

This being the case, the OP's Christian "friend" might be trying to convert the OP to a quite different flavour of Christianity

Yeh, he could be from the Westboro Baptist Church. They are my favourite tambo bangers.

Unsurpassed comedy.

Thal

[iansinclair]

Yeh, he could be from the Westboro Baptist Church. They are my favourite tambo bangers.

Unsurpassed comedy.

Thal

I'm never quite sure whether to laugh or cry which I read about their antics...

[thalbergmad]

They have been banned from coming to England as their antics would break so many laws.

It appears that the right to free speech in USA protects these offensive cretins.

Thal

[rachmaninoff_forever]

I'm not reading any of these responses.  When someone Brits up religion everything turns into a sh*t show.  Unless the previous 40 comments aren't people arguing with each other, I'm wrong.

But to answer your question, quit being a whimp! 

Just tell him that you don't care and you're not converting.

[outin]

I'm not reading any of these responses.  When someone Brits up religion everything turns into a sh*t show.  Unless the previous 40 comments aren't people arguing with each other, I'm wrong.

Either you should work on your grammar or you really are getting soft 

[swagmaster420x]

I'm never quite sure whether to laugh or cry which I read about their antics...

they are actually suprisingly tolerant... ie invite gay friend over for dinner np
https://www.ebaumsworld.com/video/watch/82234098/

[perfect_pitch]

Just tell him that you don't care and you're not converting.

That's what I originally said...

Try this method - 3 easy words.

"*** off, ***".     

Easy peasy...

[theholygideons]

That's what I originally said...

Easy peasy...

I was merely asking for maturely suggestions, not just '*** off'. It might seem trivial to you but I don't think you realise the effect that religion has on certain people, and the need to be respectful, despite having conflicting religious beliefs. 

[kakeithewolf]

Yeh, he could be from the Westboro Baptist Church. They are my favourite tambo bangers.

Unsurpassed comedy.

Thal

Someone should start going to the funerals of WBC members and carry picket signs saying "God Hates the WBC".

[thalbergmad]

Perhaps they will eventually reap what they have sown.

Thal

[kakeithewolf]

Perhaps they will eventually reap what they have sown.

Thal

According to the Bible they claim that they follow, they will.

[future_maestro]

I really don't mind, I am comfortable to take the risk. Probably one of the easiest risk assesment to make in my life. That and not sleeping with garlic every night

I am not sure how happy I could be in that place anyway, considering the type of people who will be there...But I am glad if they are happy, I wish them no harm, even if they do annoy me every now and then with their behavior.

Heaven is a happiness that you can not even imagine experiencing here on earth, the Bible says. Have you been there? How do you know what's in store for you?

And as happy and blissful as heaven is, hell is COMPLETELY the opposite. If you think that your going to go there and have fun because all your friends will be there, you're wrong. Just like we can't imagine how great heaven is, we can't imagine how terrible hell is. Think about the worst pain you've ever felt combined with the most shame you've ever felt combined with the most suffering and torment you've ever felt, now multiply it by 1,000, and you still won't even get the equivalent of hell's pain and suffering.

I understand if you're not ready to accept this yet, I'm not judging you. 

I just wouldn't ignore it until it's too late.