time to buy a grand piano for my son?

[Moonsong]

Hello,

My 14 year old son started playing advanced pieces like Hungarian Rhapsody No 2. He has been practicing on a Charles R. Walter upright and he is happy with the piano. I'd like to get some advices from you experts how benificial it will be to practice on a grand piano instead of an upright. Is now a right time to switch? or already a little late? or don't have to?

Best wishes
Michael

[julie391]

it depends, of course it would be nice, but its alot of money

consider - is his passion waning? if so - the grand may reignite his passion

is his technique and command of sonority and dynamic subtleties already advanced? - if so he may benefit from the greater subtlety of the grand, and it would help advance him further

but if he is already very passionate and new to the difficult stuff, and his dynamic command isnt developed extensively - then the upright may suit him for a good while yet

but, again - if you have all the money in the world - theres nothing stopping you

[LJC]

Get him a good quality grand. Get the biggest one you can afford or fit in your house.

[bunbuns]

Sure! He seems really skilled and has probably already invested alot of time into playing. I think  he would be extremely happy and as long as you talk to him about how determined and passionate he is. If you have the room for it and the money go for it! It will be beautiful in your house but there is many personal questions to ask yourself before getting it. Can you take the responsibilty for taking care of it and how will you get it into your house. I think that if your saving money up on the side for it you should wait. It probably isnt extremely necessary. He might go through alot of changes and if you save up money for two years or more he may be able to make a better decision but if you got more than enough money =p and you really want to encourage him it could help!

[donjuan]

Hi Moonsong,
My parents bought me a grand when I was 14.  Now I am 17 and I feel it has really helped me technically and really is more encouraging- I practice all the time on my shiny yamaha C2.  I am sure your son deserves it- Hungarian Rhapsody No.2 requires a piano in good shape for the repeated notes and it needs to be able to "take a beating" as Liszt would probably break a number of strings while performing it.  I remember trying to play Grand Galop Chromatique on the upright- it was so frustrating!! My fingers moved faster than the keys could allow and I was always upset at the way the una corda (left) pedal works on the upright- It changes the whole feeling of the keyboard and it made the touch even more unresponsive.   

I understand your difficult choice- It would be a shame if your son lost interest in playing AFTER you bought the grand and you end up losing money.  Therefore, you must be convinced your son has a definitive interest in the piano and shows no sign of losing interest.  I convinced my parents - it is definately possible.  Also, did you say he was happy with the upright he has?  If so, well - its time to talk to his teacher about advantages in using a Grand.  (believe me, there are MANY - you just need to find the ones that apply to your son.)

I hope you make the right decision for yourself and your son.

donjuan 

[Daniel_piano]

It would be a bit of improvement but certainlty not necessary
My teacher that is also a piano and organ concertist got his diploma while studying on an upright (he was very poor and he never coulf afford a good piano, not even a good upright one) yet he is now a famous concertist and teacher
If you can afford it and have place for it in your house, then a grand piano is better dynamic-wise and sound-wise, but don't be fooled by piano sellers in thinking that it will be strictly necessary to your son progress and musical development
Even if he want to become a piano concertist he can get his diploma on an upright
After the diploma he can pass to a grand to prepare his piece for performance

To save money you can buy a baby grand
There are reconditioned ones for less than 3500$

Anyway, to answer your question: there's not a right time to switch to a grand, if you can afford it, do it; if you can't don't buy it... it wouldn't prevent your son from becoming a professional pianist

Daniel

[jr11]

My view is that any time is a good time for a grand. If it is not for the technical merrits, it is for the psychological boost. You feel empowered sitting at the control of a grand piano with the lid open, much more so than an upright. You look forward to practicing because of this. And for your home, a grand piano is the ultimate furniture showpiece. They say most of people who buy grand pianos do not even play the piano!

As for cost, there are affordable alternatives to the big names. There are a number of brands that are emerging as real quality contenders, offered at excellent prices as they try to break into the market. If you feel you want to upgrade to a professional grade instrument later, some shops will take in trade the first piano you bought from them at the full price you paid.

Best of fortune to your son in his studies.

[Moonsong]

I’d like to thank everyone for your thoughtful reply and time. A little more on my son…. He recently went for a local piano competition with Chopin Op 10 No 3. He did not win, but he played well and made the final. His piano teacher gave him Beethoven Moonlight the 3rd movement as a next practice piece. He is also working on HR2 as mentioned above, but this is his first Liszt piece. He can play Chopin Revolutionary well. He finished some easier Beethoven sonatas like Pathetique, several easier popular Chopin pieces in Nocturne, Waltz, Mazurka, a few easy popular Mozart sonatas and Fantasias in C minor and D minor, Rachmaninoff Prelude C# minor, Schubert Impromptu Op 90 No 4, and Bach Toccata and Fugue in D minor and Fugue in G minor (and many Bach stepping stone pieces).

His practice time has been very limited, 30 min to an hour a day at most. I forgot to mention that he is also playing violin, finished Suzuki book 8 and switched to the conventional teaching method, working on Beethoven Romance No 2, but the same story, very limited practice time.

Thank you again
Michael

[donjuan]

sounds like he deserves the grand!  Get it for him!!

Why is his practice time so limited?

donjuan

[DarkWind]

That's so unfair! I'm 14, I'm practicing pieces like Samuel Barber's Piano Sonata, a piece which was untouched for years simply due to it's technical dauntingness, yet my parent's have no clue about it, or anything of piano, for that matter!

[Moonsong]

Donjuan, My son like other 14 year boys is interested in other things besides playing instruments such as video games, instant messaging with his friends on line, sports, reading books (not so much here), etc. He thinks that music is just one of many interesting things in his life, and wants to “balance” all these. He has been in high school about 3 months, and these days it is his school work that demands most of his time (taking 4 honor classes) and also he is in the football team which requires 3 hours of practice every day including Saturdays (thank god the season is over). From another viewpoint, maybe I can say that he is not so much motivated yet and still has a long way to go to appreciate the beauty of classical music. Did I mention he is playing guitar also?

[RacerX]

The grands have better action.  less float.  I find it easier to perform pieces such as Chopin's Scherzo or Gershwin's Rhapsody in Blue. 

[donjuan]

Donjuan, My son like other 14 year boys is interested in other things besides playing instruments such as video games, instant messaging with his friends on line, sports, reading books (not so much here), etc. He thinks that music is just one of many interesting things in his life, and wants to “balance” all these. He has been in high school about 3 months, and these days it is his school work that demands most of his time (taking 4 honor classes) and also he is in the football team which requires 3 hours of practice every day including Saturdays (thank god the season is over). From another viewpoint, maybe I can say that he is not so much motivated yet and still has a long way to go to appreciate the beauty of classical music. Did I mention he is playing guitar also?

hmm well, maybe if piano isnt too much of a priority in his life, he doesnt need the grand right now.  Perhaps he will not appreciate it right now, so dont get it for him yet.  I also play Guitar-I study it at highschool.  It is this point he is in where his interest in music will drop entirely or kick up significantly.  hmmm ask him if he wants a Grand!

donjuan 

[dinosaurtales]

My guess is that if he is playing Liszts' Hungarian Rhapsodies (actually playing them, not just messing around) then he has plenty of passion for piano!  Probably good technique, too!  It's time for a grand.I am with LJC = get the biggest and best you can afford and have room for. Get Larry Fine's Piano Book, and narrow down to a short list of pianos to check out.

You are THE NICEST DAD!!!  My parents would NEVER have considered such a thing.  Our spinet was concert quality to them! 

[Moonsong]

Thank you RacerX, Donjuan and DianosaurTale. He is not just messing around with Hungarian Rhapsody 2, he is practicing it for public performance some day, and he has been pretty good at it so far performing better in front of an audience than the practice time. The local competition I mentioned earlier was his first and the winner played a harder piece (Chopin Scherzo No 1), but his performance was pretty close to the winner’s. I think he had no technique problem so far since his teacher always says his has good technique, while I am wondering how he got it, maybe the pieces he played so far are not very technically demanding? Considering the amount of his practice time, I think he is pulling a lot out of it, so I just don’t want to waste his talent (assuming he has some here, which could be a false assumption), but am wondering where his heart is. Thanks again.

[donjuan]

It sounds like you two need to talk.  Find out where his heart is!

[DarkWind]

You are THE NICEST DAD!!!  My parents would NEVER have considered such a thing.  Our spinet was concert quality to them! 

My parents want me to work and all that other stuff so I can at least get a decent upright... yet they don't realize I've been sightreading works like some Liszt etudes right in front of them and they don't even understand the sheer difficulty of them.

[dinosaurtales]

You are THE NICEST DAD!!!  My parents would NEVER have considered such a thing.  Our spinet was concert quality to them! 

My parents want me to work and all that other stuff so I can at least get a decent upright... yet they don't realize I've been sightreading works like some Liszt etudes right in front of them and they don't even understand the sheer difficulty of them.

Oh man!  Don't get me started on clueless parents!  I remember working for months on Beethoven's Moonlight - yup the whole thing - memorized and all, and she wanted me to play something for her.  So I figured I try it out - and played the whole thing.  When I was done she said "oh that's lovely.  Now play the Entertainer - I just love that".  I refused and that's the last time I played for my mom.

[DarkWind]

My mom, when ever someone visits, says, "Ooh, play them something interesting. Like Schubert's Serenade. Or the Fur Elise." Sometimes she doesn't even ask me to play. And usually the guests never pay attention. Argh. At least my dad tries a bit, and likes Chopin's 3rd Ballade and a few other works.

[Cecin_Koot]

Yes!!!   I am 14 too and how much would I like a decent new grand piano??

too much!

[Daniel_piano]

You are THE NICEST DAD!!!  My parents would NEVER have considered such a thing.  Our spinet was concert quality to them! 

My parents want me to work and all that other stuff so I can at least get a decent upright... yet they don't realize I've been sightreading works like some Liszt etudes right in front of them and they don't even understand the sheer difficulty of them.

Oh man!  Don't get me started on clueless parents!

How could they be otherwise?
It's not their fault, they're not the one studying and no one explain anything to them
If I could play a piece like Islamey for my sister she comprehensibly wouldn't understand how hard it would be, she wouldn't understand the technique difficulty involved and their difference between a piece like Fur Elise
We can't expect other to know the difficulty of what we do if we don't explain it to them
How can you expect them to know the "sheet difficulty" of piece?
Out of what knowledge?
If they don't study piano they can't simply guess how difficult some pieces may be
Myself can't understand if a piece is a 6 grade or a 8+ grade, not always at least
There are pieces from Bach, Mozart and others that sound far more easy than how difficult they're to learn so that people might rightly think that they're a piece of cake

I don't see the problem in letting people have their tastes
They may like what you played with love but they will always have their favorites no matter how good you played that piece
My sister like Schubert and if she listen something from Grieg, despite how good it sounds or is played, she will always prefer Schubert and we'll be more happier to hear Schubert from me than Grieg
You can on the other hand explain them why you like the piece you played, why you chose it and what the difficulty involved is

Daniel

[DarkWind]

I always believed people went with the simple philosophy of "if your hands move faster, its more difficult."

[Daniel_piano]

I always believed people went with the simple philosophy of "if your hands move faster, its more difficult."

Nothing could be farther from the truth
Difficoulty lies in other things, likle rhythm, perfect tone, perfect musicality and interpretation
There are a lot of Andante harder than lot of Presto
A teacher I know consider Mozart Sonatas really difficoult and never assigm them before 8 grade, according to him Mozart made everything sound simply by using complexity, there's no place where to hide when you play a Mozart Sonata you can't pretend you have talent or you can play the piece perfectly, either you can or you can't, the linearity and the perfection of harmony makes it impossible to cheat (thing that according to him every student do uncounsciously)

Daniel

[DarkWind]

I always believed people went with the simple philosophy of "if your hands move faster, its more difficult."

Nothing could be farther from the truth
Difficoulty lies in other things, likle rhythm, perfect tone, perfect musicality and interpretation
There are a lot of Andante harder than lot of Presto
A teacher I know consider Mozart Sonatas really difficoult and never assigm them before 8 grade, according to him Mozart made everything sound simply by using complexity, there's no place where to hide when you play a Mozart Sonata you can't pretend you have talent or you can play the piece perfectly, either you can or you can't, the linearity and the perfection of harmony makes it impossible to cheat (thing that according to him every student do uncounsciously)

Daniel

I didn't say I believed that. I said people did. By people I mean those who really don't know much about music. I myself would never consign to saying and believing in such a ridiculous phrase.

[Daniel_piano]

I always believed people went with the simple philosophy of "if your hands move faster, its more difficult."

Nothing could be farther from the truth
Difficoulty lies in other things, likle rhythm, perfect tone, perfect musicality and interpretation
There are a lot of Andante harder than lot of Presto
A teacher I know consider Mozart Sonatas really difficoult and never assigm them before 8 grade, according to him Mozart made everything sound simply by using complexity, there's no place where to hide when you play a Mozart Sonata you can't pretend you have talent or you can play the piece perfectly, either you can or you can't, the linearity and the perfection of harmony makes it impossible to cheat (thing that according to him every student do uncounsciously)

Daniel

I didn't say I believed that. I said people did. By people I mean those who really don't know much about music. I myself would never consign to saying and believing in such a ridiculous phrase.

Sorry    I misunderstood you, now I've read your post again and I undertand you meant a different thing
I've to understand that there's a huge difference between "I've always believed" and "I always believed" .

Daniel

[DarkWind]

Hehe, its alright!

[RacerX]

Thank you RacerX, Donjuan and DianosaurTale. He is not just messing around with Hungarian Rhapsody 2, he is practicing it for public performance some day, and he has been pretty good at it so far performing better in front of an audience than the practice time. The local competition I mentioned earlier was his first and the winner played a harder piece (Chopin Scherzo No 1), but his performance was pretty close to the winner’s. I think he had no technique problem so far since his teacher always says his has good technique, while I am wondering how he got it, maybe the pieces he played so far are not very technically demanding? Considering the amount of his practice time, I think he is pulling a lot out of it, so I just don’t want to waste his talent (assuming he has some here, which could be a false assumption), but am wondering where his heart is. Thanks again.

My problem is stage fright.  I play imaculant when recording or in a small setting but not as well in front of an audience.