Friction - what should be the gramm resistance at the whippen flange?

[hbofinger]

Hi all,

On my 1970 Yamaha C7 I've managed to get the shanks back in order by repinning, and got 7 swings and about 3 gramms of flange resistance on the shank  - so there I am good.

But I still feel a ton of friction. Middle C today measured out at 65 gramms downweight, and the keys would not up up until I had the weight down to 10. So I started sniffing out, and realized there was absolutely no play in the key.

But there was play in the C above, and after double checking everything and checking the hammer shank to exactly seven swings, I got a downweight 47 gramms, but my upweight was still a dismal 10 to 15 gramns. So I looked at the whippen flange, and it seemed sluggish at 4 gramms with a gramm gauge, to I pinned it to 1.5 gramms (I was really shooting for 2 gramms), and tried it out. Wham, my downweight went down to 45, and the upweight to 20. To me it would be ideal to get the entire action there.

I don't want wandering pins, so is there a ballpark I should be shooting for with the looseness of the whippen flange? It is obvious to me now I need to ease most of the key bushings - the C that I got to meet those specs with was the only one with even a budge of play in it. But to get the upweight right, I will need to reduce friction elsewhere also, and is seems the whippen flange might be the candidate.

Any ideas about how far I should ease the whippen flange without running the risk of wandering pins?? Am I good with 1.5 to 2 gramms using the gramm gauge?

Thanks!

[faulty_damper]

Is it possible that the wood has swollen so much that it's putting excess pressure on the pins?  Have you tried alcohol to reduce the swelling?

[hbofinger]

I don't know what is causing the problem, if it is just age. The action was stiff when I bought the piano two years ago. It had been rebuilt in Japan, new pin block and all of that, but all they did in the action was replace the key bushings, and re-pin the damper flanges.

The overall rebuild is excellent, and the piano is rich and powerful. However, I suspect that an apprentice did the damper flanges, since those pins started to wander, and I had to redo a couple of them myself. The senior guy in the shop must have known, and decided not to have the rest of the action re-pinned.

So new I have tight new bushings that need to be eased, and I got to repin the whippen flanges (I already did the shanks).

Anyhow, the question is how loose is too loose on the whippen flange? I know the shank has to be just right for tone, but is there more room to adjust by loosening the whippen flange? I only did one note experimentally, but the results, at least in measurement, looks really good.