Teacher as a Sensei?

[m1469]

For some reason I have deeply held teacher/student relationships as something like a master martial artist, a Sensei(?), and primary student.  As though one of the aims in teaching is to not just have a general studio, but to also find a particular individual who the teacher can entrust with even the deepest of one's own learning and training, and that there is this timeless, deep craft that is passed through the generations in this way.  I have always been deeply fascinated by teacher/student relationships that have seemed to me to be profound, for example Rachmaninoff living with his teacher (though I realize that was not necessarily the kind of profound situation it may seem).  I had thought it to be something where both a student and teacher somehow fulfill a very particular role in one another's life and that this is a very high honor that continues through the generations.  

Perhaps this is simply an outdated impression on my part, left over from another life ... or who knows what?  Wrong from the beginning?  I am not sure.


AHhhhh ... and perhaps with that, I will finally go spend some quality time for the first time in months, practicing towards this craft, even if in the following days I cannot

[kevin69]

I think this sort of apprenticeship it no longer that common today (in europe at least).
However, in academia i think it still exists between a PhD student and their supervisor.
For me an important part of this is that while you start off in a student/teacher relationship the end goal is to be working as equals, and that this should be acheived within a fairly strict timeframe too.

[Bob]

Master-apprentice I'd agree.  Except I don't think the teacher can know all that.  I wouldn't trust them to. 

"Teacher as guide" is what I'd go with.  Or just 'person as guide.'  You can pick things up from someone even if they're not a teacher. 

[faulty_damper]

When I was in music school, when the teacher was away on tour during the summers, he would have his students house sit.  They would hang out at his place, play on his Steinway, drink his wine, eat his cheese, and smoke pot.  I don't think this is the kind of student-teacher relationship you're referring to. 

Anyway, what you refer to is a master-disciple relationship, not the Western student-teacher relationship, which is different.  A master is someone who has complete command of his field of expertise while a teacher rarely has such command or knowledge.  A disciple will learn everything  from his/her master and creativity is strongly discouraged.  A student is expected to learn on his/her own and figure things out for him/herself.  There will only be a couple of disciples per master but there can be thousands of students per teacher.  A disciple must carry and pass on the tradition whereas a student can do whatever s/he chooses including forget everything s/he learned.

[pianoslav]

I agree with you. You can observe this teaching model in some of the great recent pianists. For example, Sviatoslav Richter had an ongoing, lifelong relationship and mentorship from Heinrich Neuhaus. Neuhaus speaks about this in his book, The Art of Piano Playing. Also, Evgeny Kissin had a pretty close relationship with his teacher Anna Kantor, whom he continued to learn from long after he was world famous, and would travel with him to his concerts. I'm sure that there are more, less-famous examples of this as well (those pianists whose parents play piano fairly well and become musical mentors for them, until their children outgrow their level).

I'm not saying this is the only model of student-teacher relationship, because there are many great pianists who went to conservatory, where they took classes from many different teachers and never really became close with them. However, this model still gives results like it did in hundreds of years ago.

[m1469]

Right now, this very moment, I have too many thoughts.  I am trying to bring huge (for me) ideas together and it's difficult for me to really get them organized.  I am not a blank slate nor an empty mind and soul that needs somebody to fill it up.  When I look for ideas from others, it is specifically because it gives me a point of reference to work from and organize my thoughts and ideas around, or somehow augments what is already there into something even greater.  In my case, I have been working alone almost my entire life, and when I've worked with somebody it's been under circumstances that are not considered the normal ideal learning circumstances - for one example, flying to my teacher out of state every 6 weeks instead of weekly lessons.  Balancing a job and household at the same time, and this during fundamental training that some people get when they are 5.  OK, I'll accept and I'm very grateful (and I very much miss my dear teachers), but sometimes I just wish I could have the opportunity to really see some of these things through without interruptions.

It is not that I want to learn only from one person, it is the contrary.  But to have somebody I could trust to work with and bring ideas to and work with their ideas, because I am invested in music and they are invested in music and we are invested together, it just seems invaluable.

[m1469]

Hey, and I wanted to eventually perform with my teachers .