If life is eternal...

[m1469]

...what is the point of "saving" this world and the human race from its own destruction at a particular point in time, or within a particular type of circumstantial living?

I am speaking strictly logics.

[kakeithewolf]

Largely, there isn't a point. Whether or not life is eternal, the destruction of mankind is something that will inevitably happen, be it from human stupidity or from resources eventually running out or from overpopulation.

I'm not quite sure what you mean by circumstantial living. If you mean something like chasing after things like money or possessions or any such thing, there still isn't a point. Money is tree pulp and ink (or any given metal), and possessions are just a tally for the amount of matter that is arbitrarily defined as "yours". Fame is meaningless, as all legacies eventually die, and even the most legendary of legacies shall be dust in the wind as all others. Happiness is meaningless, because it simply doesn't do anything for anyone but you, and it's completely subjective anyway. Even the search for extending mortality is useless, as it's denial of the inevitable.

You can jump from one pursuit to the next, and they're all pretty meaningless from a logical perspective, whether or not life is eternal.

[littletune]

Kakeithewolf, you are such a happy and positive person!   

Well I don't know exactly what the point is, but to me it doesn't seem logical that there would be no point. I mean if something doesn't have a point then it's not very logical. Maybe there is something we can't really understand logically (yet). 

[swagmaster420x]

From that perspective, there is no point to anything at all.

[j_menz]

...what is the point of "saving" this world and the human race from its own destruction at a particular point in time, or within a particular type of circumstantial living?

I am speaking strictly logics.

Eternity is not the same as everlasting temporality.

Indeed, eternity embraces all temporality, so the temporal world is worth saving as part of it.

[Bob]

I read recently eternity isn't infinite or forever.  Eternity has an end.  It lasts an eternity, but it does actually end.


Maybe we're all reincarnated so we should be setting things up for our future life.  ... Disregarding all those extra souls who keep appearing on the planet.  ...Unless we can reincarnate into the same time period we're living in now.... which means you could be someone else out there. 

Religion isn't logical.  It's faith-based.


It does kind of point at a "just use up that planet and move on to the next one" idea, doesn't it?  Maybe it's a golden rule type of thing.  That's part of it religion.  It would be rude to use up the planet because then others wouldn't have it.

Plus... You could always be damned for all eternity too.  It's kind of an all or nothing result.  Except I've heard Catholics have purgatory.  That sounds similar to Earth -- not great, not bad.


There could be a catch too.  Maybe it's eternal life, but... Your a rock.  In that case, would you rather be a rock on Earth were it's... Earth, kind of boring being a rock.  Or, would you rather be floating around in space as a rock or on a dead planet as a rock.  That sounds worse.  *Bob feels bad for the Martians now.*  People (or evil microbes) on Mars must have been pretty bad.  And now they're all stuck as rust rocks on a dead planet.  Sucks to be them.   Which means... We should all get moving on whatever we think is right so we don't turn into dead rocks. 

On the other hand.... What if you get eternal life but come back as a jelly fish?  Jelly fish are going to have it good with climate change.  Everything "bad" we're doing now is good for the jelly fish.  *Bob contemplates the advantages of reincarnating as a rock vs. jelly fish.*


*Bob checks his watch to see if it's 2029 yet.*

[kakeithewolf]

Kakeithewolf, you are such a happy and positive person!   

Why, thank you. I will treasure that compliment.

[chewbacca_90]

Why, thank you. I will treasure that compliment.

Wanna have tea and share thoughts on existential nihilism sometime?

Best,
Alex

[kakeithewolf]

Wanna have tea and share thoughts on existential nihilism sometime?

Best,
Alex

I'm not a nihilist, merely a realist.

[chewbacca_90]

I'm not a nihilist, merely a realist.

Neither am I, but is that a no?

[kakeithewolf]

Neither am I, but is that a no?

Existentialism? Yes. Nihilism? No.

[Bob]

Sharing thoughts about Nihilism over tea?  Why bother?  What's the point?

[chewbacca_90]

Sharing thoughts about Nihilism over tea?  Why bother?  What's the point?

Replying to a post in an online forum? Why bother? What's the point?

<3 Bob

[Bob]

It's all pointless.  There is no point, no meaning. 

[kakeithewolf]

It's all pointless.  There is no point, no meaning. 

The Emo's Guide to the Galaxy.

[chewbacca_90]

The Emo's Guide to the Galaxy.

You forgot the slit your wrists part.

[Bob]

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/nihilism

My comment was meant as a joke.  Meet for tea to discuss Nihilism?  What's the point?

[chewbacca_90]

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/nihilism

My comment was meant as a joke.  Meet for tea to discuss Nihilism?  What's the point?

I'm pretty sure he was aware of that, and was only following up with a joke of his own.

[Bob]

Ah, yes.  I wasn't reading who was posting.  Nevermind....

[kakeithewolf]

Ah, yes.  I wasn't reading who was posting.  Nevermind....

I was never known for my humour.

[Bob]

It's a subtle humor.

[minimax]

I like the question m1469, so I will add my opinion.

Eternal is formless and One/Indivisible. It creates forms, becomes them in a sense, as no form can exist without formless, but at the same time is still untouchable to anything that happens in the material relative realm/realms, which exist in that Oneness. Of all the life expressions only human form has a conscious consciousness and is a “primary vehicle” for the evolution of consciousness. No other species has the ability to create so much illogic in everything that it does, but at the same time that illogical behavior creates specific path of evolution for the whole planet, on which a particular human form evolves. That evolution is important, as the purpose of this “game” is to evolve the eternal through evolution of consciousness/Life. Eternal is already 100% logical (so no chaos can exist in its laws), as without it no material realm would exist a second. Chaos exist only in a human mind, as it cannot grasp eternal laws that guard the evolutionary process yet.

So, preserving the life as it is now - is to allow for the main goal of Eternal, which each one of us already IS - its own evolution. Most of people on this planet are still not aware of their own BEING and because of this, they are lost in everything material (desires). It slowly changes, and for the sake of preserving Life on this beautiful planet, we should do everything possible to make changes in ourselves, so the life can go on. Why change ourselves? Because everything what we carry inside is projected outside in material realm. Totality of all projections (from each human form) creates life as we see it. To see a meaningful change in what we see in the world, requires only change in what each one of us desires.

I am optimistic long term and think that human form will go on, but pessimistic in short term, as we are fast approaching times of revolutions and big wars - which will deplete numbers to some extend and make life a "hell" for a lot of people left to see it.

[senanserat]

You know that light at the end of the tunnel people see when they die? Thats a vagina/C-section.  What if they come back? Stillborn babies...

No point
Everything is irrelevant
Nothing is truth

[minimax]

You know that light at the end of the tunnel people see when they die? Thats a vagina/C-section.  What if they come back? Stillborn babies...

No point
Everything is irrelevant
Nothing is truth

The joy is just pouring out of what You wrote 

Maybe instead of relaying on “hearsay”, you could just start with “looking” for one part in You that does not change - as it is the “door” to finding out for oneself, what is Truth. Can other people’s experience be a proof to you? Not for me. I take something as probable and prove it for myself - in me - as this is only “place” where I can really prove something for myself.

I agree with You - No thing is truth - but are You a thing?

[dima_76557]

Maybe instead of relaying on “hearsay”, you could just start with “looking” for one part in You that does not change - as it is the “door” to finding out for oneself, what is Truth. Can other people’s experience be a proof to you? Not for me. I take something as probable and prove it for myself - in me - as this is only “place” where I can really prove something for myself.

Can one really trust one's own thoughts and conclusions enough to determine what Truth is within the context of the OP's question without any external references at all? What about the element of our responsibility for and towards nature, other living beings, etc? Shouldn't that be part of the equation to make our conclusions in such matters a little bit more "true"?

@ m1469

I doubt your question can ever be answered satisfactorily, the more so since you limit the framework within which the problem should be solved to human "logics", whatever that is.

[minimax]

Can one really trust one's own thoughts and conclusions enough to determine what Truth is "?

You are right about that. You cannot trust a thought to prove the Truth - as it is what prevents you from "seeing". You need it at the beginning of the journey, as You were programed by society and most of those thoughts are not your own. You need to find for yourself what a thought is. It happens automatically if You make the journey into Yourself. Then you know why it is an obstacle.

What about the element of our responsibility for and towards nature, other living beings, etc?

That question arises only because you are separated. You have ideas about nature. You see the damage that humans inflict on nature and You want to be “responsible”, as a reaction to what you observe.

Consider those questions then:
What is a cause of the damage to nature ? Why you feel the need to be “responsible”? (look for a hint above) In what realm that question arises for You?

[dima_76557]

That question arises only because you are separated. You have ideas about nature. You see the damage that humans inflict on nature and You want to be “responsible”, as a reaction to what you observe.

Consider those questions then:
What is a cause of the damage to nature ? Why you feel the need to be “responsible”? (look for a hint above) In what realm that question arises for You?

Thanks for clarifying that.

As for the question in the topic. The tendency to show compassion and "save" others or to ease their pain (not even exclusively our own kind) seems to be inbuilt from the very start, regardless of any knowledge of whether life is eternal or not. On YouTube, for example, there are several amazing clips where animals rescue other animals (not even of their own or closely related species).

[minimax]

Thanks for clarifying that.

As for the question in the topic. The tendency to show compassion and "save" others or to ease their pain (not even exclusively our own kind) seems to be inbuilt from the very start, regardless of any knowledge of whether life is eternal or not. On YouTube, for example, there are several amazing clips where animals rescue other animals (not even of their own or closely related species).

Good point. Why we can observe that behavior in animal kingdom?  Because animals do not posses ability to “think” and create what is not real (thought forms) - they relay on instinct. That applies only to humans. We create thoughts which in some part have nothing to do to reality, in our stupidity, we take them for real and cause enormous damage to others and ourselves at the same time. Animals have to kill, as we also have to do to sustain existence, but do not go into excess doing it. What distinguishes us from them is that we kill for pleasure. Why? Because pleasure is short lived and we must experience its opposite - pain. So we always run for what we take as pleasant and try to sustain it. Why we need pleasure? Because we got separated from our own true nature which is alway free, harmonious and joyful - that is always constant and not of thought/feeling realm.

What you correctly noticed as inbuilt in animals is also part of humans. That caring behavior can also be observed in young children when they try to protect others from being hurt. No schools or churches are needed to "teach them" to act like that. It changes when Ego (separation) develops. What is real and source of good, is obstructed by self-centered thoughts (desires). Than almost everything starts going “downhill”.

[Bob]

I'd favor stretching out the 'now' part of eternal life, esp. if someone made a mistake and this is it. 


So, take "Life is eternal."  That doesn't say you stay the same or still stay you even.  Maybe it's eternal, but you turn into a tree.  Maybe you're not even conscious.  But still alive and eternal that way.   ... That would kind of stuck, being an eternal tree.

[minimax]

I'd favor stretching out the 'now' part of eternal life, esp. if someone made a mistake and this is it. 

What do you mean by that statement?
If now is only a part (of eternal life) there has to be whole (of eternal life) of which part is a “piece in a puzzle”  What is whole then? What mistake you have in mind? Can life happen anywhere else but now?

So, take "Life is eternal."  That doesn't say you stay the same or still stay you even.  Maybe it's eternal, but you turn into a tree.  Maybe you're not even conscious.  But still alive and eternal that way.   ... That would kind of stuck, being an eternal tree.

Because you take yourself to be a “material thing - a body” you deduct that in eternity you may become other things, of eternal existence (tree). Are there any things that last in time “eternally” that you are aware of?

[Bob]

What do you mean by that statement?
If now is only a part (of eternal life) there has to be whole (of eternal life) of which part is a “piece in a puzzle”  What is whole then? What mistake you have in mind? Can life happen anywhere else but now?

Because you take yourself to be a “material thing - a body” you deduct that in eternity you may become other things, of eternal existence (tree). Are there any things that last in time “eternally” that you are aware of?

Space-time sounds pretty eternal.  I don't think I'd want to be that though.



That means if I have any say, I wouldn't mind stretching out the time right now before dying and trying out that eternal stage.  I'm not a rush.  An extra ten years probably wouldn't be noticed, and that's certainly not a big deal compared to eternity.  An extra hundred years then, same idea. 


I'd still rather not be a tree, esp. a conscious tree.  I'd become aware and be thinking, "Oh f____.  I'm a tree.  Now what?"  And then a dog would come along eventually.  You know that's going to happen.

[minimax]

Space-time sounds pretty eternal.  I don't think I'd want to be that though.

That means if I have any say, I wouldn't mind stretching out the time right now before dying and trying out that eternal stage.  I'm not a rush.  An extra ten years probably wouldn't be noticed, and that's certainly not a big deal compared to eternity.  An extra hundred years then, same idea. 

I'd still rather not be a tree, esp. a conscious tree.  I'd become aware and be thinking, "Oh f____.  I'm a tree.  Now what?"  And then a dog would come along eventually.  You know that's going to happen.

Can we prove now, that space time is or is not eternal? I do not think so. A lot we know about space-time is “hearsay”, coming from someone else. It is a waste of time to go into it.

Lets start this way.

Shouldn’t we finding out who You really are now, before we are going to venture into what You would like, or not like to be in “eternity”?

You are aware of your existence and of your body - that is 100% sure for you and me. You are aware of thoughts and feelings. Your body changes all the time, so do thoughts and feelings.

Can you be the thing you are aware of? Is awareness changing or changeless?

[lostinidlewonder]

Super massive black holes at the center of our galaxies which cause the entire galaxy to spin. Black holes getting larger, will eat up entire universe compressing everything to a point of singularity then BOOOM big bang occurs again. Infinite time, though limited existence of the physical, though it will renew(but be different) every big bang.