Need help with technique

[diwang99]

Can anybody help me with my technique problem I've been experiencing lately? I'm currently learning the waldstein sonata and I can't seem to get the speed and raindrop effect that makes this sonata unique, at least to me.

[diwang99]

Can anyone help me here? It's really kinda making me desperate...

[awesom_o]

Can anybody help me with my technique problem I've been experiencing lately? I'm currently learning the waldstein sonata and I can't seem to get the speed and raindrop effect that makes this sonata unique, at least to me.

It sounds to me like you have a musical problem rather than a technique problem.

Allegro con brio is the tempo marking for the 1st movement, which I assume is what you are having difficulty with.

Allegro con brio simply means with spirit!

Are you having trouble finding the spirit?

Also, can you describe the 'raindrop effect' you mentioned? Is there a particular recording you listened to that had this effect? Is the effect marked in your score (I don't think it is in mine)?

[diwang99]

I listened to John O'Connor's recording on the first movement, and it sounded like it was raining sometimes...

[diwang99]

For the spirit, I'm pretty musical... and I do have a spirit, I really like this piece.

[awesom_o]

So what are you actually having trouble with?

Muscular fatigue? Clumsy, uncontrolled sound? Frequent mistakes? Bad rhythm?

[diwang99]

Yes, muscular fatigue, my hands seem to stiffen further into practicing.

[diwang99]

How do I solve this problem, or even remedy it if possible?

[awesom_o]

When you practice the Waldstein, how do you practice it?

Do you practice performing it at full speed without the music?

Or do you practice it under tempo, with the music in front of you?

[diwang99]

I'm actually practicing only the first 4 pages of it, I want to take it easy and slow before I move on. I practice under tempo.

[awesom_o]

Have you read to the very end yet?

[diwang99]

I practice this slower than the normal tempo, but I still can't solve the muscle fatigue problem? Any suggestions?

[diwang99]

I haven't read to the very end, yet...

[awesom_o]

There really shouldn't be any muscle fatigue problems to solve, if you are actually ready to study this piece.

Also, if you are ready for this piece, you should be ready for the whole piece, or at LEAST the whole first movement.

Do you have a teacher?

[diwang99]

I've played the goldberg variations... and well-tempered clavier book 1 so I think I'm ready for this piece.

[diwang99]

and I've played 3 beethoven sonatas including moonlight and I've finished the 3rd movement of Pathetique.

[awesom_o]

You've played the entire Goldberg Variations, but you are struggling with the first 4 pages of the Waldstein 1st Mvt and haven't yet read to the end of the work?
 
I find that difficult to believe!

Do you have a teacher?

[diwang99]

I memorized the goldberg variations when I was 7, but I never considered myself to know how to play them until now. I used to have a teacher up until I was 10, his name is Arthur Greene.

[awesom_o]

How old are you now?

Why did you stop taking lessons at the age of 10?

[diwang99]

I'm 14 now, it's a long story... anyway it seems like my hands will get stiff if I play arpeggios and when I jump the octaves.

[diwang99]

and I have problems on moonlight 3rd movement, towards the end, where there are the insanely fast arpegios.

[awesom_o]

It sounds to me like you really need a piano teacher, diwang99!

Even Chopin himself had lessons throughout his teenage years, and Chopin was a real genius!

[diwang99]

oh, but the piano teachers in China absolutely suck, and the ones that are good have an insane price tag per hour.

[diwang99]

awesom o, can you just give me some tips on what I should do with my arms, fingers, and wrists to help alleviate this problem?

[pianoplunker]

Can anybody help me with my technique problem I've been experiencing lately? I'm currently learning the waldstein sonata and I can't seem to get the speed and raindrop effect that makes this sonata unique, at least to me.

 I am not familiar with the piece ( at least not what my brain remembers ) but sometimes I have found that during practice to play the very opposite of the effect you are trying to achieve. If the raindrops are to be soft and sweet, then practice a few times really LOUD AND HEAVY.  Sometimes I can find the right touch by knowing what the opposite is. Another way to practice is to "chunk" by playing all the notes at the same time, For instance , if an apreggio you play the chord with the proper hand position for the arpeggio. It helps to understand how to position your hand as you go through it.

[faulty_damper]

Even Chopin himself had lessons throughout his teenage years, and Chopin was a real genius!

May I ask from whom did he take lessons with?  Was his teacher a piano teacher?

[faulty_damper]

And just to clarify, what exactly is the "raindrop" effect you're referring to?

And to further clarify, you're having problems with tension building up with the repeated notes, correct?

Edit: Upon listen to O'Conor's performance of this movement, I think you're referring to the arpeggios section when you say "raindrop"?

[j_menz]

May I ask from whom did he take lessons with?  Was his teacher a piano teacher?

His mother was a piano teacher, and he may have had early lessons from her. His first (non-parental) teacher was Wojciech Żywny, who was a professional piano teacher.

He did formal studies at the Warsaw Conservatory, but these appear to have been largely in composition (under Józef Elsner)

Clearly they did a better job than your grammar teacher.


"May I ask from whom he took lessons." 

[diwang99]

I have to say yes to all of your guesses, and I do have tension buildup on the repeated notes.

[faulty_damper]

I have to say yes to all of your guesses, and I do have tension buildup on the repeated notes.

If you were to look at your wrists as you play, are they flat or in line with the forearms as you play the repeated notes?  Are they stiff?  It's wrong if it is.

Also, what is the "raindrop" effect you referred to?