Technical excersizes vs Repitoire

[lance132]

So, I decided to practice nothing but technical things for my technique. I was playing a few pieces from Bach, Chopin, and Beethoven, but came to the conclusion that I don't have enough control in my technique yet to be satisfied with my playing. I know this is probably talked about alot. There are some who say technical excersizes are a waste of time because it dulls your musical senses. Then there are some you say that technique is the most important thing to achieve before anything else as it gives you an ability of total control over the music. I'm siding with the latter. I know liszt's teacher,Czerny, made him quit everything but technical excersizes for a while and he practiced like 5 hours a day and he is said to have been able to play better technically than anybody else in that time. What are you guys thought about this?
btw, Im playing nothing but etudes, scales, and arpeggios now.

[awesom_o]

Well, you know, there's music involved in technique.... and there's technique involved in music.

So I'm not sure what your question is!

One way you can determine how technically skilled you are is by seeing how fluent you are in the area of transposition.

Take a simple song that you know well by ear, such as "Happy Birthday", and play it hands together, melody in the RH and some sort of accompaniment in the LH.

If you are technically fluent, you will be able to INSTANTLY play it in any key, without making any mistakes or hesitations to find the notes.

If you find this extremely challenging, then your technique is yet well-developed.

[brogers70]

I think the question is not how to identify whether your technique is well developed, but whether the fastest way to get good at playing pieces in the repertoire is to NOT practice pieces in the repertoire, but to practice only technical exercises until your technique is good enough that you find the pieces in the repertoire much less difficult than you did before you took off your X number of years to just work on technique. Damned if I know, but it sounds fairly boring.

[m1469]

Yes, it has been talked about a lot, and people generally either say "Yes, exercises!" or "Only repertoire!"  It seems as though the answer is not black and white, and perhaps it's not, when a person doesn't know exactly what they are aiming for.  I think it's good to revisit the idea.  I believe that a person's aim should be to make the principles of moving around the piano as black and white as possible, and that if you are having trouble with a particular piece or figuration, you can pinpoint exactly what it is that is causing the trouble and then solve it by whatever means needed.  If a person doesn't know what they are looking for in this regard, then -in my opinion- finding it is the most important next step(s) and that should be a big part of the focus in playing anything at all.  This does not mean a person must divorce themselves from being musical.

Personally, I have found and still find scales and arpeggios over four octaves to be very helpful for very specific reasons (and that list of reasons is rather full, including musical ones).  Because I aim to be quite specific about what I am actually practicing and trying to achieve, if I were assigned 5 hours of technical practice today, what I would be getting out of it and what I'd be aiming for would be very different than even a year ago, or even 6 months ago ... or even 2 weeks ago, for that matter.  

I currently believe that technical exercises and repertoire should eventually be just about one in the same, that they should serve very similar purposes and have very similar outcomes, and perhaps until they do, it is important to intelligently separate them out.  

[Bob]

There's no end to technique.  You can always do more.  So... At some point, you'd have decide how much technique-only to practice vs. actual music.

One idea I thought was interesting.... Have a list of all techniques ( as much as you want to list).  Then pick rep that fits that.  Whatever tech is left, then do exercises for that, so you don't lose that ability.

[onwan]

My teacher says: half hour of technical exercises, then scales and arpeggios, some Bach, etudes from Czerny, then something from classicism (Mozart, Beethoven...) and something romantic or 20th century.
 
I thing this is the best way how to succeed, because you practice all of the technical and musical categories.

The technique and repertoire are growing at the same time.

Don't you agree? 

[thalbergmad]

Don't you agree? 

I refuse to budge from my stance that we must search for our own path to competence.

There is no right way and no wrong way, only our own way.

Thal

[classicalnhiphop]

I feel that using this approach will diminish your love for music and simply make you feel like it's all about playing technically proficiently.  You will think it a drudge to ONLY play etudes (depends on which ones), scales, and arpeggios.  Really, there is always repertoire to match technical ability.  If you must, just incorporate these exercises into your practice routine.

[j_menz]

technique is the most important thing to achieve before anything else as it gives you an ability of total control over the music.

Assuming, for present purposes, that that is true, what are you going to do with that "total control"?

Technique, in the sense you are using the term, is an ability to execute choices. But how do you know what those choices are?  That is something that can only come from playing music, and the more of it the better.

By all means, work on improving your "technique", but don't neglect to make sure you actually have some use for it.

[awesom_o]

  Really, there is always repertoire to match technical ability.  If you must, just incorporate these exercises into your practice routine.

Really, there is always technique to match repertoire ability!  Just incorporate this repertoire into your exercise routine!

[kevin69]

My teacher says: half hour of technical exercises, then scales and arpeggios, some Bach, etudes from Czerny, then something from classicism (Mozart, Beethoven...) and something romantic or 20th century.
 
I thing this is the best way how to succeed, because you practice all of the technical and musical categories.

The technique and repertoire are growing at the same time.

This is fine for those who can make time to play for several hours a day.
Since i only manage to play for three or four hours per week, this plan wouldn't do much for me.

[onwan]

I think, technique is petty compered to musical feelings and good interpretation, but how could you produce a good tone if you don't have technique?
(You see, it is all in circles: one without the other is useless.)

This is fine for those who can make time to play for several hours a day.
Since i only manage to play for three or four hours per week, this plan wouldn't do much for me.

If you practice only 3 hour per week, you'll never have great technique.

For those who are time limited would be really useful Czerny 8 measures exercises.

[iansinclair]

May I point out that there are some pieces accepted as "repertoire" which can be regarded as technical exercises at the same time?  All four of the Schubert Op.90 impromptus, for example.  Or the six Sibelius impromptus.  Or...

For that matter, even the much overplayed Beethoven "Moonlight"!

In other words, to a certain extent you can have your cake and eat it too...

[m1469]

May I point out that there are some pieces accepted as "repertoire" which can be regarded as technical exercises at the same time?  All four of the Schubert Op.90 impromptus, for example.  Or the six Sibelius impromptus.  Or...

For that matter, even the much overplayed Beethoven "Moonlight"!

In other words, to a certain extent you can have your cake and eat it too...

What really matters is the ability to know in which way(s) -how- this is applicably so.

[ted]

There is no right way and no wrong way, only our own way.
Thal

I couldn't agree more. "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law", especially for an outsider artist like me.

[awesom_o]

I couldn't agree more. "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law", especially for an outsider artist like me.

+1

[m1469]

There is no right way and no wrong way, only our own way.

Thal

I couldn't agree more. "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law", especially for an outsider artist like me.

+1

It would be nice to wrap all of life up in that package and tie it with a bow, wouldn't it?  But, it's actually a complex subject and I both agree and disagree with the sentiment.  It also depends upon the aim.  If my aim is to be more organized about my own way, there is definitely a way that I could live in contrast or opposition to that.  And as a teacher for literally hundreds and hundreds of students by now, I have definitely observed patterns, principles, and ways that tend to work for the majority better than others.  Along with teaching privately, I also teach class piano, and one of my main jobs is to streamline what I teach in order to make it accessible to everybody at once, and as quickly as possible.  Each class gets more streamlined than the last and, consequently, each class as a group tends to learn more than the last in the given amount of time.  

Even with very head strong individuals, somebody who is quite talented and believes she doesn't care about anything formal and wants only to improvise ( ) in lessons, I have "given in" - I have stopped teaching her in a formal way, and we generally do everything through the lens of improvisation for an hour each week.  I just sneak what I want her to learn into improvisation, and she eats it up like candy .  Without realizing it, she is learning about form, style, music history, contrast in composition, technique, theory, transposition, she is getting ear training, and we even include some classics with "improvisation" included ... but really, it's me specifying the entire time how I want her to "improvise."  

[ted]

Good on you m1469, what a splendid approach. How wonderful if all teachers could do that. Makes me realise once more how lucky I was with mine.

[kevin69]

I think, technique is petty compered to musical feelings and good interpretation

+1

If you practice only 3 hour per week, you'll never have great technique.

Probably.
But since i only started music in my 40s, i doubt i will ever have great technique regardless of the time i spend playing. However, i can say that i have improved my playing in the last six months, so there is hope for me

As with many things, is you only have short amounts of time available, its very important to have a high intensity during the time you have: that is, listening closely to every note you play and knowing what you want to acheive before you start playing.

Oh, and i never *practice*. I *play*.
Sometimes i might only play one bar, but its still playing.