New piano student needing guidance, please help.

[juleusjohn]

Hello, my name is John, I am a new piano learner and I have just started learning and playing the piano for at least 6 months.

Aside from my knowledge of basic chords, scales, arpeggios, relative minors and all that basic stuff.

I HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO IDEA WHERE TO GO TO AND WHAT TO LEARN FROM HERE!

I know it would be better if I had a teacher who can guide me, but I am financially broke and cannot afford it.

That is why I turn to all you gentlemen here for advice and guidance, please guide my willingness with your knowledge, I really want to learn but I have no idea what to learn, my only resource of knowledge is the internet, aside from that, I'm completely blind.

I'd appreciate suggestions regarding books, and practice regimens.

But what I'd really like is for someone to provide me a layout and chronological order of what a student should be learning and practicing. A road map, like a plan that says "first practice this, then this, then this, after that, this." just so I won't get lost and get confused as to what to learn next.

I know this is a big request, and some of you might think I'm taking advantage, but I am not, I am just a very curious piano learner.

Thank you and good luck.


-John

[faulty_damper]

My first concern is that you already have a set idea about how learning should occur based on these statements:
"I'd appreciate suggestions regarding books, and practice regimens.

But what I'd really like is for someone to provide me a layout and chronological order of what a student should be learning and practicing. A road map, like a plan that says "first practice this, then this, then this, after that, this." just so I won't get lost and get confused as to what to learn next."


The problem is that learning doesn't actually work the way you think it does nor can anyone tell what's actually going on in your mind as you learn.  In fact, confusion is necessary because it indicates that your brain is reaching out to form new connections.  After confusion comes uncertainty and then it settles on something it is certain on.  This is when the brain has severed useless connection and, assuming it's the right connections, it should be practiced so that it is strengthened.

If you understand this and still really want that roadmap, then you should look to various schools' syllabi.  However, none of them produce high quality, effortless technique, nor do they provide exceptional musicianship.  You'll be able to get through notes, and may sound nice, but you won't be a musician, which is the ultimate goal, to be able to communicate in the aural arts.

So where to start?  Anywhere that suits your interests.  What kind of music do you like to listen to?  Is this the kind of music you want to play on the piano?

[juleusjohn]

Hello faulty_damper, thank you for your response.

I understand the brain strengthening part.

But what I need is a layout, something similar to a course, so that I can practice my way through it.

I'm still a beginner and I know I have many things to learn, and I don't even know what these things are, I just know that they are there.

And I'd really appreciate it if someone were to shed some light for me regarding these hidden things, to show me these hidden knowledge.

I know I need to practice, but I don't know what to practice.

I listen to classical music and it is my goal to play them, like the works of Bach and Chopin.

But I also listen to modern music, piano transcriptions of famous songs like "Yiruma - River flows in you" and I also like jazz.

I hope this helps.

-John

[m1469]

My first concern is that you already have a set idea about how learning should occur based on these statements

So, this is not a set idea on how learning should (or shouldn't) occur:

The problem is that learning doesn't actually work the way you think it does nor can anyone tell what's actually going on in your mind as you learn.

 

And this is not telling someone what is going on in their mind when they learn:

In fact, confusion is necessary because it indicates that your brain is reaching out to form new connections.  After confusion comes uncertainty and then it settles on something it is certain on.  This is when the brain has severed useless connection and, assuming it's the right connections, it should be practiced so that it is strengthened.

It would seem you believe there are in fact some formal "guidelines" (or even formulas) after all, about how people -everybody- learn.  It's definitely -for certain- more conducive for this method to be the backbone of teaching over any other, clear, formulaic method, I guess.  

If you understand this and still really want that roadmap, then you should look to various schools' syllabi.  However, none of them produce high quality, effortless technique, nor do they provide exceptional musicianship.  You'll be able to get through notes, and may sound nice, but you won't be a musician, which is the ultimate goal, to be able to communicate in the aural arts.

So, there is no particular path that leads to the ultimate goal of communicating through the aural arts, but there is definitely a path which avoids it?  And by avoiding the path which avoids an inevitable aural arts communicative dead end, you take the path that is not the path, but which leads a person straight to the ability to communicate through the aural arts?  So, don't take the path, take the path that is the unpath, and surely you'll reach your goal, he says!

I won't claim to be an expert at creating great artists, but I do my fair share of teaching.  The majority of my students probably tend to be those who come to me as beginners, and generally I aim to make things pretty clear.  But perhaps I should rather teach them middle c by showing them everything but middle c, and that way they will surely divine for themselves where it is?  Or, if I am not to introduce confusion from the very beginning, for the sake of sacred brain strengthening, perhaps you could shed some light on at which point in the path a path should become an unpath, in order for it to be the correct path?

[faulty_damper]

Piano playing can be broken down into two parts:
1. technique
2. musicianship

Your first goal is to learn the easiest technique you can so that you can make music the best.  This just means breaking it down into very, very small pieces of movement, usually just practicing 1 or 2 keys and expanding from there.  There are many ways you can depress the keys, but your goal is the one that is the easiest.  For example, even though the keys go straight down, your fingers don't have to move the same way; they can depress the keys with sideways movements. Another example, if the same note is played, the body can change the angle of attack.  Focus on your entire body, not just the fingers.  Whole body comfort is important.

The second goal is to make music.  For this, you'll need to know how music is best expressed.  E.g. an ascending melody needs to crescendo and a descending one diminuendos.  Music is not a metronome, so there is flexibility in tempo.  When the music feels anxious, you must rush forward.  When it relaxes, you slow down.  When it feels angry, play loud and accent notes.  When it's depressed, you play quietly without accents.  Music is about communicating ideas.

For practice making music, I strongly recommend creating your own melodies, restricted to an octave so that it's also singable.  Start with a pentatonic melody and when you feel comfortable, play a bass note to harmonize.  I would stay with this until you've mastered it because it is the foundation of improvisation, and also something many improvisors, such as Yiruma, has done.  This also develops your ear and sound-keyboard geography.

[m1469]

 

Thanks.  I mean it  .  You know, I can actually, truly hear your intention like a tone of voice as I read this - I can't help it.  Do you believe it?  It's true.  I can also interpret your actual past from it, as a result, because you unintentionally communicated an honest feeling and experience  .  And, for me as a learner, feeling/hearing somebody's intention is perhaps the biggest portion of my learning with that individual because it affects the potency, or literal vibration, of the "message."  While this thread is not about me, I think it's important to be aware that a teacher's intention can play an enormous role in communicating (or not communicating) information, in whatever form, especially with highly sensitive students, and it can greatly affect a student's relationship with the desired result.

Do you think that to a "creative mind" and within the right context, reading something like that is any less helpful or is any more deadening (even if presented in a dry, monotone way) to creativity than is a teacher pushing dynamic confusion "for the sake of certainty?"  How do you know what I (or anybody else) do or do not take from something like that?  Or how it does or doesn't help me (or anybody else) to be anchored and creative at the same time?  Hmmm?

[m1469]

Juleus,

See if you can start to break up your concepts of learning into big, general categories, as well as what you believe your own strongest or favorite, as well as weakest or least favorite, avenues of personal learning are.  The big categories will ultimately function together as a unit, as your expression of music, and your personal avenues of learning are the ways in which you learn about them (and will directly affect the result).  

Everybody will face challenges in learning on some level, and while the ultimate state is to have everything functioning as a unified whole, think of that wholeness in function as something like an engine.  An engine is a complete idea, formed in concept and whose individual parts have come together to create something greater than themselves in isolation.  You are something like a mechanic whose aim is to not just to look at and be fascinated by an engine, but to really know it and each part inside and out.  To know what each part does, how each part plays a role in the complete idea, how it all fits together, and to be capable of discerning which part of the engine needs your attention if the engine isn't working as it could be, and as it was meant to.  Ultimately you are actually a part of the engine, too, as in a sense you are the builder of it and you are building it to your own specifications, for your own purposes, and to utilize in your own ways.  

What would your first steps be, do you think?  If you know nothing about engines, perhaps a great first step is to just start finding out about them in whatever way you can.  As it relates to music, I think F_D's suggestion of looking at syllabi is a good possibility of getting an overview of the actual content included, as well as how some other people (in large groups) are going about it.  

Define for yourself what you believe are important steps to keep yourself going.  Define for yourself who your favorite artists are in the genres that you like, and what about them make them your favorite.  Be as specific as you know how/want to, even if 6 months from now your mind will change.

[faulty_damper]

Thanks.  I mean it  .  You know, I can actually, truly hear your intention like a tone of voice as I read this - I can't help it.  Do you believe it?  It's true.  I can also interpret your actual past from it, as a result, because you unintentionally communicated an honest feeling and experience  .  And, for me as a learner, feeling/hearing somebody's intention is perhaps the biggest portion of my learning with that individual because it affects the potency, or literal vibration, of the "message."  While this thread is not about me, I think it's important to be aware that a teacher's intention can play an enormous role in communicating (or not communicating) information, in whatever form, especially with highly sensitive students, and it can greatly affect a student's relationship with the desired result.

Do you think that to a "creative mind" and within the right context, reading something like that is any less helpful or is any more deadening (even if presented in a dry, monotone way) to creativity than is a teacher pushing dynamic confusion "for the sake of certainty?"  How do you know what I (or anybody else) do or do not take from something like that?  Or how it does or doesn't help me (or anybody else) to be anchored and creative at the same time?  Hmmm?

My intention was primarily to steer the boat in the best direction possible because the ocean is a mine field.  If you don't already know the path, any wrong turn can sink your battleship.  Things like finger exercises, for example, do more harm than good because it deadens your senses and conditions you to think that physical exertion is good when it is not.  The path of least resistance is the path that leads you to your destination soonest.  You don't want to waste time trying to rebuild your ship out in the open sea when there are still hundreds of active mines floating about.  Worst still are the other boats that have been sunk encouraging you to chart their way.  I've sunk my boat way too many times but now I know the course well enough.

[juleusjohn]

Thank you m1469 and faulty_damper for your quick response.

I have considered everything that you said and I have decided to take a look at various online piano syllabus.

Although I have reviewed some of them, I'm still having difficulties understanding some portions, especially this new music term I have discovered called "Etudes" where they help students to improve their skills.

But I guess it's all part of the learning process.

Lastly, do both of you have any books you would like to suggest?

-John

[m1469]

Lastly, do both of you have any books you would like to suggest?

Bach, 2 and 3 part inventions
Czerny, 50 Little Studies (selected)
Scales, Chords, Arpeggios in 4 octaves
Chang, Fundamentals of Piano Practice
Maurice Hinson's Guide to the Piano Repertoire plus supplement
A little music dictionary (I think there is one on this site)
Grieg Lyric Pieces or Schumann's Kinderszenen or Mendelssohns Songs without Words

[gregh]

I think you're overthinking it. At this point it's probably appropriate to get something like Alfred's Course for Adults, book 1, and start on page 1. Practice each exercise until you can play it fairly well, and have a few exercises or a few pages "in play" at a time, don't obsess about just one at a time.

Alfred has a book 2 and book 3. And, at times, there are notes on the bottom of a page like "You are now ready for...", and you can decide if you want to branch out in that way. You can browse the music store for things you think you can play, you can try to work out a tune you've heard somewhere, mess around a little, experiment. But there's time for all of that. For now, just get a beginner's method book and make that the core of your practice.

[m1469]

My intention was primarily to steer the boat in the best direction possible because the ocean is a mine field.  If you don't already know the path, any wrong turn can sink your battleship.  Things like finger exercises, for example, do more harm than good because it deadens your senses and conditions you to think that physical exertion is good when it is not.  The path of least resistance is the path that leads you to your destination soonest.  You don't want to waste time trying to rebuild your ship out in the open sea when there are still hundreds of active mines floating about.  Worst still are the other boats that have been sunk encouraging you to chart their way.  I've sunk my boat way too many times but now I know the course well enough.

OK, I understand there is some tricky stuff in here, and I see things in two major ways that seem opposing.  So, I will outline one way, but realize I can also see something in at least one main opposing way, with a bunch of variations on that.  (One of) The way(s) I currently see it, one of the most "dangerous" ways a teacher can be is if s/he in fact believes there are no principles involved, that there is no such thing as a "complete" musical idea or unit (where all parts function together in a whole), that there is no road map at all, and that everything about the path is a complete and utter mystery.  

I will use the engine idea once more to illustrate.  With an engine, there are basic principles involved which govern the complete idea.  If I were a teacher of building engines, but believed that there were essentially no way to actually build one, and if based upon that overriding belief I had no real idea how each part functioned, then I am almost certainly not going to be producing world-class engine building students.  

As that engine-building teacher, it is still very possible for me to become fixated on a particular aspect of the engine, say the spark plugs.  And while an inside and out knowledge of spark plugs (for the engines that require them) is useful to the complete idea, if I don't really understand how they relate to the rest of the components and to the overall engine, even if my knowledge of spark plugs themselves is truly something great, I will still be a type of faulty engine building instructor.  

So, as it relates to piano (and music), it is one thing for somebody who truly understands -inside and out- the principles of the full(er) picture, the entire engine so to speak, to ask something in particular of a student.  "I can see the whole picture, and I can see that at this moment, in order to connect with the fuller picture in a new way, this student needs a better knowledge of spark plugs!" vs. somebody who does not see the fuller picture, does not believe there is one, and who is fixated on only one particular aspect  "I really believe in spark plugs!  Therefore, I will teach my student about what a spark plug is and does!"  In this case though, who do you think will actually have a fuller idea of spark plugs?  The person who knows nothing but spark plugs inside and out, or the person who knows spark plugs inside and out as well as the function they serve in the larger picture?  

Perhaps it is something like becoming fixated on something like forearm rotations, for one example out of many, and stopping there, without seeing a larger picture?  But to understand the larger picture in how forearm rotations can actually be used to achieve a greater good, perhaps there needs to be an actual time in life that they are fixated upon!

The way I see it, there are principles to playing.  Being an artist is related, but still something slightly different.  Somebody can build world-class engines based on and reaching no further than already existing principles.  But to create something new as expressed in a personal outgrowth and vision of what has already been established, that is something else.  They have mastered the principles to the point of using them in new ways, knowing how to give variations for other purposes, understanding how to follow principles but substitute ingredients, etc..  

People need a way -ANY way- to practice principles both consciously and subconsciously, and they need a way -ANY way- to bring them together to masterfully form a whole.  Period (basically).  This does not mean they had to fully divorce themselves from their individuality and learning styles along the way, but I won't get into that at the moment.  Is it possible to reach beyond that?  Yes, of course!  But that is in part up to the individual, as well as the need and opportunity within the environment.  

[anima55]

If you are not sure what to play, and most beginners wouldn't, then a piano method book would be extremely helpful to you, such as the Michael Aaron method series.   Having said this, with a method book and no teacher, certain things won't be obvious, such as playing legato, maintaining a good hand, wrist and finger position, or even correcting wrong notes or rhythms, etc.

But a method book like the Michael Aaron series will certainly point you in the right direction.  Picking up odd pieces here and there won't be so helpful, if only because you might not get a psychological feeling of consistency and order.  Only those who already have the experience are really able to pick and choose random pieces in a suitable order for a beginner.

[juleusjohn]

Thank you m1469, gregh and anima55 for your suggestions, I will check for those books immediately.

-John

[pianoteacheruk]

This is a good very recent collection of easy pieces for the beginner, which covers everything from baroque to contemporary classical:

"My First Piano Anthology" by Marco De Boni

https://www.amazon.com/First-Piano-Anthology-Marco-Boni/dp/1497572886/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1397167613&sr=1-1