adult beginners taking lrsm diploma. Do they exist?

[beebert]

I have been wondering. Has there ever been any starting the piano from scratch as adults (age 20+) reaching a level high enough to take the lrsm diploma? Are there any here on pianostreet who has done it?

[bronnestam]

And WHAT is that        diploma??? Never heard of. I guess I don't care.

[whistlestop]

Licentiate of the Royal School of Music. A British institution but nevertheless recognised in many countries around the world but obviously not in the US.

To answer the question, there may be some (not on the pianostreet forum, perhaps but elsewhere)although from 'scratch' is unlikely. Most adult students learned a little in childhood, gave up in their teens and then something reignited the flame in adulthood. This is what happened to me; went back to lessons in late 30s and found I was about grade 4 level.
Busy working full time but am currently working towards LTCL which is Licentiate of Trinity College London (once was called Guildhall School of Music & Drama) and the same sort of level.

Pieces am working are: Chopin op 60 Barcarolle, Schumann op2 Papillons, Bach P+F (forgotten the number but it's in C sharp maj) etc etc to give you an idea.

You can progress as far as you like - it just takes a little longer.

[vertigo1974]

I started completely from scratch in my 30s, having not played a note before that. I've now been playing for around 6.5 years (I had to stop for a while because I injured my arm), and I'm preparing for my abrsm grade 7. I know this is a long way off the level you're asking about, but I'm actually finding the further I go, the easier it's getting in many ways. I feel very confident I can get last grade 8 with no major problems, and then, who knows?

As the previous poster said, I agree that if you're really prepared to put in the work, and you have a great teacher and the ability to think critically about what you're doing, then you can get as far as you want (within limits - I'm obviously never going to play professionally).

[nanabush]

Keep up the work!  I've taught a few adult students over the years, one of whom had gotten to grade 7 in elementary/high school, and quit piano for 20 years.  He came back, and after a few years, was floating around Grade 8-9, dabbling in Grade 10 rep (RCM.  This is equivalent to about Grade 7-8 ABRSM).

The best thing with piano is the amount of Repertoire you can choose from... there's a book I've had for like 9 years, and I was flipping through it yesterday, and there had been a piece in it I never looked at or listened to.  Gave me a pretty awesome 2 hour activity when I came back from school.

Adult beginners who are driven can do really well.  Some tend to overthink stuff (they are sometimes worse than young starters with the question "why?" haha).  I also had a student, she was an older lady, probably in her late 50's, who took lessons with me for four years.  She worked at a leisurely pace (she liked playing 10-15 pieces from each grade before moving on, and only did an exam for every second grade).  She made it to Grade 5, and was honestly one of the best sight readers I've ever had for that level in the RCM system.  She could honestly pick a piece, and have gone through quite a bit of it for the next week, took some notes on it, and had started writing fingerings.

She treated these pieces kind of like mini puzzles, where the payoff is "beautiful music".  I love people with that mentality!!  She was one of my favorite students, she took her time, and she enjoyed it.  I unfortunately moved across the country for school haha, so she was moved to my old teacher (who is excellent).  But I'm sure if she stick through it, she'll get to the upper grades, even if it takes her another 5 years.

[beebert]

But nanabush. Do you beleive it is possible to reach LTCL or LRSM!-level,  playing pieces like Chopin ballades and more difficult Beethoven sonatas if you start from scratch at the age of 20 for example?

[brogers70]

But nanabush. Do you beleive it is possible to reach LTCL or LRSM!-level,  playing pieces like Chopin ballades and more difficult Beethoven sonatas if you start from scratch at the age of 20 for example?

The only way to find out is to try.

[beebert]

You are right brogers70!
May I ask when you started playing piano? What sort of pieces are you playing and have you ever taken an exam?

[brogers70]

I started when I was 40 (I'm 55 now).  I'm working on some Cramer exercises, a Bach Three-part Invention, the Pastorale Sonata by Beethoven, and "On an Overgrown Path" by Janacek. I've never taken an exam; even if I wanted to, I live in the middle of nowhere and I'm not interested in driving hours to the big city to do it. But I just play because I like to and even if I never get to all the pieces I'd like to play, it's fun to work at it.

[beebert]

Well, if you feel like you can handle the Pastorale Sonatas all movements up to tempo, then you are certainly playing at a fairly advanced level, and there are a lot of pieces out there that you can handle. What other pieces have you been playing before?

[chopinrabbitthing]

I don't see why they cant exist. If people under 20 can start piano from scratch and obtain the LRCM, why can't people over 20 do it? I heard that sometimes adult students can learn faster, due to their experience on how to deal with life in general, and maybe their professions.

I guess you definitely won't be able to do it if you don't even try.

[beebert]

when did you start playing?

[chopinrabbitthing]

when did you start playing?

6 I think. I'm 15 now, but I only started *seriously* studying the piano about 3 or 4 years ago, after I got into a music school with a good teacher. I'll be able to to go for my LTCL in the Christmas or Summer of 2015.
Why do you ask?

[beebert]

No reason, just wanted to know since you said you thought it was possible to reach that level starting as an adult. I would love to have empirical evidence for its possibility

[saranoya]

"Empirical evidence" as in: a longitudinal study looking at a random sample of adult beginners over a period of, say, ten years, to track their practice habits and where those got them? I'd say it's quite unlikely that such a thing exists.

And as they say: the plural of "anecdote" is not "evidence". So even if you find someone on here who says: yes, I am an adult who started from scratch when I was over twenty, and I'm taking my LRSM exam next week ... well, all that would tell you is that at least one person has done it. It wouldn't tell you anything at all about whether adult beginners, in the aggregate, are more or less likely than child beginners to attain the level you are aspiring to, and why.   

But suppose, for the sake of argument, that nobody who got started playing the piano as an adult has ever passed that exam. So what? Why would that stop you from trying?

There are no guarantees in life. Nobody can promise you with 100% certainty that you will ever succeed at anything. The only sure thing is that if you don't try, you won't succeed. 

[outin]

 So even if you find someone on here who says: yes, I am an adult who started from scratch when I was over twenty, and I'm taking my LRSM exam next week ... well, all that would tell you is that at least one person has done it.

But it would certainly answer the question in this thread, wouldn't it?

I think the OP just needs encouragement from the fact that at least someone has been able to do it. I thought for a long time that I had lost my opportunity to really learn to play in my youth. I would never have been happy about playing simple tunes for the rest of my life so I didn't touch an intrument for about 25 years. When it dawned on me that people actually have learned to play the kind of music I am interested in starting at an older age, it was enough to encourage me to buy a piano and start leassons. Never thought it would be easy or little work, but at least there was a chance

[saranoya]

I think the OP just needs encouragement from the fact that at least someone has been able to do it.

Quite possible.

Well, OP: I don't personally know anyone who has ever taken the LRSM exam, because I'm from Belgium and we don't do that here . Instead, we have a whole system of public music schools that organise and grade their own exams.

That said ... I believe it should be possible to become a good pianist starting from scratch as an adult. Check out this guy, playing Chopin's G minor Ballade two and a half years after getting started from scratch:

. As he himself has written, this recording is by no means a "reference recording". For that, listen to a professional pianist playing it. But it proves one thing. If you work hard, you can make faster than expected progress at this. And then after that, you'll have a lifetime to get better. 

As part of my piano lessons, I participate in a small-scale class recital three times a year with my teacher's other adult beginners. There's a lady there who is 66 years old, newly retired, and started piano from scratch at the same time I did (now almost two years ago). She had no other musical experience prior to this, as far as I know. She gave a very credible performance of a Bach fugue at our last recital.

Examples of people doing pretty well at learning the piano, even having gotten started as adults of (potentially) advanced age, are not all that hard to find. There is no reason why they *should* be exceptionally rare. If you just convince yourself of that, I believe you can do literally anything. All it takes is time and dedication .