Kawai vs Ritmuller

[cromax]

Hi pianostreet forum!

This is my first post here, in fact I just registered myself!

I'm an intermediate/advanced level student (I think ) - i'm "playing" (trying to play ) pathetique sonata, liebestraume n 3 and a few chopin studies - and I, along with my parents, decided that it's time to replace my digital roland piano for a real piano!

I've visited a few stores and tried a few pianos but unfortunatly here where I live (Portugal) the variety of pianos you can find in stores is very limited But well between the pianos I've tried the ones that I had most joy playing were a Kawai grand piano model RX5 and a Ritmuller GH170. Both of this pianos were new and costed around the same price- note that the kawai is on sale - (12000-13000 €). I also liked Yamaha U3 upright but this was the only upright piano I liked between the ones that I tried.

I am posting here because I want to know your opinion about this two pianos, the Kawai and the Ritmuller, and all suggestions of other options are truly apreciated

Oh i also tried a Yamaha grand, I think it was C3, but I didnt like it as much!

Thank you in advance!

P.S: Sorry for my English 

[iansinclair]

Your English is fine.  A lot better than my Portuguese would be!  Both of those companies make very good pianos, so the question really is -- as it so often is with these things -- which one do you prefer to play?  Which one sounds better to you and, more important, feels better under your fingers?  The Kawai is a slightly longer piano and may have a better bass -- but then again, it may not as that depends on a lot of variables besides the length.

Sorry to seem unhelpful -- but it's really which one do you prefer!

[cromax]

Thank you for your kind answer iansinclair!

I was incorrect when I said that the Kawai was new, it is used, I had some trouble with the delear he kind of explained it me "wrong"..
Both pianos were really good in action and tone, and yes the Kawai bass was indeed more powerful, but I'm still not sure which one I should buy, or if there are better options than this two pianos.
I really want to be sure that the piano I'm going to buy is something really good in quality and price terms!

[kaliq]

If I were you, I'd keep my fingers I away from Kawai, Yamaha & co; I've already had many experiences with these budget pianos and for 90% they were pathetic, satisfying only the most basic demands.

Some things to look at when buying a practice piano:
•   Keys: Are they easy going enough? Do they have a good pressure point? Try to play fast, complicated passages; if it feels like your fingers are sort of slowed down by the keys then forget this piano.
•   Sound Volume Range: Can you play in pianissimo without having to be careful that tones aren't falling out? When you play in fortissimo, are the tones still clear and beautiful? This is very important, especially for Romantic pieces! At music school I had to practice on a Kawai (one of the worst pianos I've ever played on and according to my teacher the other Kawai pianos aren't better as well) but I only had a playable range between mP and mF - try to play Liebestraum there! ; )
•   Pedal: Does it make a lot of noise? Does the pressure point suit your taste?
Sound quality, on the other side, is not as important. Of course it must sound good but it's meant for practicing after all, you don't need to play concerts on it, so there's a bit tolerance here.


If I were to buy a piano on limited budget, I’d rather look for old instruments. Technology hasn’t relevantly changed in the last ~150 years, average quality has probably become worse (plus most old cheap quality pianos haven't been preserved anyway) and if it is maintained well a piano easily lasts for hundreds of years. And even if it has degraded (due to bad maintainance), this primarily affects sound quality - e.g. we had a very old Bechstein piano at music school which hadn't been maintained at all (the paint had faided off so that you could see the wood underneath!) so the sound was bad but on the three points listed above it still nearly reached a Steinway.
I've done a search on the German version of Ebay and there were tons of well-maintained pianos for sale far under 10 000€. You'll certainly find purchases in Portugal as well - just look through the web and try to find a seller not far away from your place so that you can go and test the piano before buying.

Finally, a few additional tips:
• Basically, age doesn't matter. You just have to be make sure it has a modern key machanism ("double échappement" in case of grand piano; it was introduced in 1821) - even a piano from the 19th century would be perfectly fine.
• Nothing speaks against an upright piano - I practice on one myself, it's a 30 year old Burger & Jacobi and although my mum and my brother have both played on it intensively, it still works brilliantly well.
• Be careful at pianos built in the time between late 80s and early 00s - many companies moved to Asia that time often resulting in pathetic quality, even at great brands like Boesendorfer.