My Etudes Plan (does this sound alright?)

[chopinrabbitthing]

My teacher says I really need to be cracking on technical exercises. Well about two weeks ago, I decided that, along with the Cramer/Bulow Etudes, I'll also be *dramatic "dun dun dun"* taking on and completing the Chopin Op 10 Etudes. I've already done a few from both books.

The main aim is to have everything finished and the Chopin almost-performance-ready in exactly a year from the start of the Chopin which was about 2 weeks ago.  So around 52 weeks is what I have.

Cramer/Bulow:
I do an Etude every week. I've done quite a few before so it should take me a year to do them all.

Chopin:
In this 52 week period there will be 12 Etudes to be studied, two of which I've already studied and can perform quite well (they'll take less time to study). I'm planning to do one Etude every 4 weeks (so for every 4 Cramer I complete, I do 1 Chopin). If I still can't play a particular Etude well by the end of the fourth week, I'll keep working on it while starting a new one. That's 48 weeks (give or take), plus another 4 weeks to tie up any loose ends.

To ensure I don't forget anything over the course of the year, I'll occasionally spend some time on an Etude I previously learned.


####

Sounds alright huh? I just had a bit of a brainspark there and thought of it, thought I would write it out before I forget it.

[awesom_o]

I think it's okay to prioritize a single Chopin Etude each month, but if you are really serious about mastering op. 10 in a one year, then make sure you are working on all twelve of them regularly as well, even if you are focusing on bringing a single one up to your highest standards each month.

[dima_76557]

My Etudes Plan (does this sound alright?)

I don't think your plan with the Chopin etudes op. 10 sounds particularly healthy. That's not how pianistic development works. If you need to "crack on technical exercises", then you make a list of the main technical skills a pianist needs to master, group them, and find appropriate material to acquire them in context.

Chopin's etudes, though, are NOT technical exercises; they were not written to develop this or that mechanical skill. The technique should be there already before you tackle them, otherwise you are bound to fail. Besides, cramming the whole of op. 10 (more difficult even than the whole of op. 25) into one year is unrealistic and will do you no good. You will know the notes, but what good are the notes in themselves?

[j_menz]

they were not written to develop this or that mechanical skill. The technique should be there already before you tackle them

Really? And where would one have developed that prior to them being written? And why did Chopin himself use them for his pupils to learn the techniques therein?

[dima_76557]

Really? And where would one have developed that prior to them being written?

Maybe we should ask Franz Liszt who sightread them, much to Chopin's admiration?

And why did Chopin himself use them for his pupils to learn the techniques therein?

I think they were off-limits for those who could not fulfil the artistic requirements. They were certainly not part of the "cracking on technical exercises" path the OP is talking about.

Chopin as Pianist and Teacher

Only to significantly advanced students did he assign his Etudes, op. 10 and op. 25.

[cabbynum]

Maybe we should ask Franz Liszt who sightread them, much to Chopin's admiration?


I think they were off-limits for those who could not fulfil the artistic requirements. They were certainly not part of the "cracking on technical exercises" path the OP is talking about.

Chopin as Pianist and Teacher

But we all know how amazig liszt was at sight reading and that doesn't really tell us much now does it.

I agree and disagree with you on the crackin on technical exercise thing.
Because, if the OP. Has decent technique but wants to really blast it then the method he is talking about will blast musicality and technique. Remember he is doing other etudes than just the Chopin.

[dima_76557]

I agree and disagree with you on the crackin on technical exercise thing.
Because, if the OP. Has decent technique but wants to really blast it then the method he is talking about will blast musicality and technique. Remember he is doing other etudes than just the Chopin.

If the OP is really advanced enough, then he/she should have a good overview over the territory that has to be covered. You simply do what you have to do and make no big deal about it. Whether it takes 3 months or 5 years is nobody's business. The very topic suggests that the OP is not up to the task.

[ajspiano]

I would argue that anyone capable of a task like mastering Op. 10 in a year probably already mastered Op. 10 over a much longer period.

awesom_o  is right in saying that if you want to take this path, focus on one per month sure, but have all 12 going from the start. You need to have these under your fingers much longer than a month in order to master them.

Granted you didn't say "master", but they hold a lot more value if you really get to know them. I don't think a rough understanding of them all is a bad place to start though, but your plan doesn't sound like one for that. You sound like you plan to put real effort into them, which means placing that kind of time constraint on their level of completion is shall we say, a bit optimistic. Even for those at the very peak of ability in this field are continually found saying they take years, decades even in some cases to settle well into their repertoire.

[awesom_o]

I would argue that anyone capable of a task like mastering Op. 10 in a year probably already mastered Op. 10 over a much longer period.

awesom_o  is right in saying that if you want to take this path, focus on one per month sure, but have all 12 going from the start. You need to have these under your fingers much longer than a month in order to master them.

This is correct. I "mastered" all of op. 10 in a single year..... but I had already been working on six or eight of the hardest studies since I was much younger. 

[visitor]

I must be doing something wrong.  I chose a single (not Chopin) etude to help address an aspect of my playing as a compliment to the other pieces assigned to me by my prof. I have been working on the etude since August 2013. I am no where near 'finished' with it.  Actually 8 months in, I am just barely beginning to feel comfortable with it and am finally feeling it become 'effort less', though I am still way way undertempo and do most of my practice with it with no pedal to work the legato, address tone quality, and emphasize my sensitivity (key feel) and response to the keyboard (i.e. continuity of touch, etc)

My mind is boggled at the thought of working on something like an etude a month!

[chopinrabbitthing]

I think it's okay to prioritize a single Chopin Etude each month, but if you are really serious about mastering op. 10 in a one year, then make sure you are working on all twelve of them regularly as well, even if you are focusing on bringing a single one up to your highest standards each month.

Thanks for your answer. I kinda meant to say that up in my post, maybe I wasn't clear enough

[chopinrabbitthing]

I don't think your plan with the Chopin etudes op. 10 sounds particularly healthy. That's not how pianistic development works. If you need to "crack on technical exercises", then you make a list of the main technical skills a pianist needs to master, group them, and find appropriate material to acquire them in context.

Chopin's etudes, though, are NOT technical exercises; they were not written to develop this or that mechanical skill. The technique should be there already before you tackle them, otherwise you are bound to fail. Besides, cramming the whole of op. 10 (more difficult even than the whole of op. 25) into one year is unrealistic and will do you no good. You will know the notes, but what good are the notes in themselves?

Thanks for your opinion. I see my Cramer/Bulow as "technical exercises" - but I plan to play it through chronologically so I can get a rather all-round thing, as I want to improve everything as a whole.

I don't see the Chopin Etudes as really "technical exercises" at all, but more like studies which will further improve on what you have. I plan to be practicing a LOT of hours per day next year, so that ain't much of a problem I guess. I plan to take them musically as well, rather than "knowing just the notes". I wouldn't say I have ALL the technique to take them down with no effort, but I do have a decent one which won't make me start from scratch.

[chopinrabbitthing]

IThey were certainly not part of the "cracking on technical exercises" path the OP is talking about.

I'm sorry if my choice of words offended you. My teacher wants me to do Cramer. I'm just assigning Chopin to myself. And it doesn't matter if I really can't do them in a year. I don't plan to *master* them, in fact I never even mentioned the word *master* - I hate that word. I'm sorry if my choice of words makes you think I am naive enough to think that I can *master* a piece, no one can.

I plan to learn them well for further even more serious study in the long future.

[chopinrabbitthing]

The very topic suggests that the OP is not up to the task.

Thanks for the encouragement

[chopinrabbitthing]

Granted you didn't say "master", but they hold a lot more value if you really get to know them. I don't think a rough understanding of them all is a bad place to start though, but your plan doesn't sound like one for that. You sound like you plan to put real effort into them, which means placing that kind of time constraint on their level of completion is shall we say, a bit optimistic. Even for those at the very peak of ability in this field are continually found saying they take years, decades even in some cases to settle well into their repertoire.

Haha, I like to make quite unrealistic goals for myself sometimes, to motivate myself. Thank you for your post, it doesn't accuse me of trying to *master* them. I like to put "real effort" into anything, to do them to the best of my ability, not just "learning the notes". I've only picked a month because it sounded like a reasonable time to play one etude with fluency and well enough.

[chopinrabbitthing]

I must be doing something wrong.  I chose a single (not Chopin) etude to help address an aspect of my playing as a compliment to the other pieces assigned to me by my prof. I have been working on the etude since August 2013. I am no where near 'finished' with it.  Actually 8 months in, I am just barely beginning to feel comfortable with it and am finally feeling it become 'effort less', though I am still way way undertempo and do most of my practice with it with no pedal to work the legato, address tone quality, and emphasize my sensitivity (key feel) and response to the keyboard (i.e. continuity of touch, etc)

My mind is boggled at the thought of working on something like an etude a month!

Did I say I will be "finished" with them? I've done a couple in about a month comfortably, that was a few years ago though, when I didn't know how to organise practice properly, and had little musical maturity.

[chopinrabbitthing]

Okay okay,
Before I offend or confuse any more people I would like to say a couple of things.
Firstly, I'm being very, very optimistic about the time it will take, but being sensible enough with it based on my previous experiences.

I've done a couple of them before, performed and competed with them. Now I think it's time to be getting at least a start on the rest of them.

I don't plan to be *mastering* them, or having them *perfect*. For god's sake, I'm not even in college yet. However, as I said, I would like them at least fluently and to the best of my ability, so I can work on them with my teacher.

But thanks for your responses anyway, it was good to read what others think, whether or not we agree with each other or not.

[cabbynum]

Okay okay,
Before I offend or confuse any more people I would like to say a couple of things.
Firstly, I'm being very, very optimistic about the time it will take, but being sensible enough with it based on my previous experiences.

I've done a couple of them before, performed and competed with them. Now I think it's time to be getting at least a start on the rest of them.

I don't plan to be *mastering* them, or having them *perfect*. For god's sake, I'm not even in college yet. However, as I said, I would like them at least fluently and to the best of my ability, so I can work on them with my teacher.

But thanks for your responses anyway, it was good to read what others think, whether or not we agree with each other or not.

Also say you don't quite complete it but you get 10 done... That's still hella impressive! Lots of people would be thrilled to get 2 or 3 done in a year!

[awesom_o]

Which of the Etudes, both op. 10 and op. 25, have you worked on?

I think it is a great project and you should be able to make a ton of progress if you remain committed.

The Etudes of Chopin are impossible to perfect. Even once you have spent years with both opus 10 and 25 'completed' so to speak, there will be musical aspects of them which you continually seek to refine whenever you dust a few off for public performance.

I would be very interested to hear the ongoing development of these as you progress throughout the year!

[chopinrabbitthing]

Which of the Etudes, both op. 10 and op. 25, have you worked on?

I think it is a great project and you should be able to make a ton of progress if you remain committed.

The Etudes of Chopin are impossible to perfect. Even once you have spent years with both opus 10 and 25 'completed' so to speak, there will be musical aspects of them which you continually seek to refine whenever you dust a few off for public performance.

I would be very interested to hear the ongoing development of these as you progress throughout the year!

Haven't properly studied any of Op 25 before, I just made a couple of skims through them.
From Op 10 I've studied nos. 3 and 5 (and 12, but not completed). I've competed at national level with 5 (as part of a programme) and it's received good comments in pretty much all.
Thanks for your encouragement, I really appreciate it!

[awesom_o]

You'd best get cracking on 1 and 2. Some really good work on those, together with what you already have, will give you a strong foundation on which to build the rest of them.

Every single one of the Etudes is uniquely challenging, but the technique required for all of them is very much related.

Do not underestimate numbers 6, 10, and 11! Musically, they are much less straightforward than some of the more well-known ones.

[chopinrabbitthing]

You'd best get cracking on 1 and 2. Some really good work on those, together with what you already have, will give you a strong foundation on which to build the rest of them.

Every single one of the Etudes is uniquely challenging, but the technique required for all of them is very much related.

Do not underestimate numbers 6, 10, and 11! Musically, they are much less straightforward than some of the more well-known ones.

I'm on 1 right now, it's been two and a half weeks and I can play it almost fluently, but with a lot of phrasing and slow. It's not as bad as I previously imagined. I'm gonna do the first two first because I probably won't play them well enough in one month, so I'll be continuously working on them.
Don't worry, I won't underestimate anything

[ajspiano]

I remember both 1 and 2 proving pretty managable up to a point and providing significant on going barriers beyond around 120 bpm, and then again around 152 in the case of number 1.

Possibly that was just me, you may already have the required movements. Slower tempos allow you alot of room for physical error in these, so just be prepared to hit a wall and have to do some pianistic soul searching to get them up to where they should be.

[awesom_o]

I remember both 1 and 2 proving pretty managable up to a point and providing significant on going barriers beyond around 120 bpm, and then again around 152 in the case of number 1.

Possibly that was just me, you may already have the required movements. Slower tempos allow you alot of room for physical error in these, so just be prepared to hit a wall and have to do some pianistic soul searching to get them up to where they should be.

That was not just you...  getting 10/2 beyond 120 bpm and 10/1 beyond 152 takes a great deal of work for everybody!

[ajspiano]

That was not just you...  getting 10/2 beyond 120 bpm and 10/1 beyond 152 takes a great deal of work for everybody!

I had a sneaky suspicion that it was just the way it works for everyone..
 
..except liszt obviously. Bastard.

[awesom_o]

I had a sneaky suspicion that it was just the way it works for everyone..
 
..except liszt obviously. Bastard.

Liszt was known for taking moderate tempos whenever he played!

It was his terrifying command of rhythm and beguiling cantabile that had the world smitten.

[cabbynum]

Liszt was known for taking moderate tempos whenever he played!

It was his terrifying command of rhythm and beguiling cantabile that had the world smitten.

Hammerklavier in an hour... I mean only 10 minutes slower than Barenboim ish. But still, he took the 3rd movement much slower than most people. well according to some reading i have done.

[dima_76557]

I had a sneaky suspicion that it was just the way it works for everyone..
 
..except liszt obviously. Bastard.

It does work the same for everybody, but the formulas that were new to others were already familiar to Liszt. He had simply broken all speedwalls elsewhere. Have a look at his technical exercises. After going through those in all keys as advised, everything else becomes a breeze in terms of mechanics.

[ajspiano]

He had simply broken all speedwalls elsewhere. Have a look at his technical exercises.

I have no doubt that is the case, they have been sitting on my piano for a long time.

[chopinrabbitthing]

I remember both 1 and 2 proving pretty managable up to a point and providing significant on going barriers beyond around 120 bpm, and then again around 152 in the case of number 1.

Possibly that was just me, you may already have the required movements. Slower tempos allow you alot of room for physical error in these, so just be prepared to hit a wall and have to do some pianistic soul searching to get them up to where they should be.

I'd say probably not regarding the "required movements" at the moment haha! I haven't started playing fast yet, but hopefully it won't be such a huge barrier for #1...if not then it'll be an even bigger challenge...which is good!