Memorising the LH chords in Chopin's Nocturne Op. 9 No. 2

[wildetudor]

Hi everyone

I'm a self-taught pianist (roughly of grade 5 maybe 6, I'd say), and I'm perhaps stretching myself a bit by trying to learn Chopin's Nocturne Op. 9 No. 2. Like most people, it is memorising the LH part that I struggle with, at this early stage of learning the piece.

I find that I normally am better at memorising a piece by making use of visual and kinesthetic ("muscle") memory, although often the knowledge of the harmonic progression per se is also helpful when playing. In this case, however, it seems to me that neither of these methods works for me to memorise the sequence of chords in the LH. It helps that there is usually a clear pattern that the LH usually follows (1 note, 2 note, 3 notes, with the index finger staying in place when moving from 2 to 3 notes), however I struggle with memorising the exact 2-note and 3-chord sequence that you have throughout each of the (A,B,C) sections of the piece.

Any tips on how to memorise the LH part more efficiently? Thanks!!

[awesom_o]

Can you play the piece beautifully, with virtually no mistakes, while the music is in front of you, on the music desk?

 

[wildetudor]

I see where you're getting at I'm learning this piece using not sheet music but lit-up keys on my Casio keyboard. I know that this will make most classical pianists cringe, but given the little time that I have available for the piano, this works better for me than struggling with the written music.
So my strategy right now is first getting it memorised, and only then working on the expression etc. I know this can be heavily criticised, but I'm hoping to get some tips on the memorising part:)

[mjames]

I see where you're getting at I'm learning this piece using not sheet music but lit-up keys on my Casio keyboard. I know that this will make most classical pianists cringe, but given the little time that I have available for the piano, this works better for me than struggling with the written music.
So my strategy right now is first getting it memorised, and only then working on the expression etc. I know this can be heavily criticised, but I'm hoping to get some tips on the memorising part:)

Oh god no, mechanical practicing's not good for you...

I'd advice learning how to read music. It'll help out a lot.

[olivetree]

This is the first Chopin piece I learned and the left hand leaps was the only thing I was struggling with a little bit in the beginning. As this piece is technically not too difficult, it worked well for me to divide the first page into small sections and play each of them over and over again. Then I connected the sections and played the whole page until everything was memorized. I didn't even need to practice with both hands separately, but maybe that could be helpful for you. The second page is pretty much a repetition of the first, so if you have memorized the first one, there won't be much left to memorize on the second.

I hope this helps. However, you have to figure out yourself what works best for you, because everybody learns differently. Keep at it and it will be fine!

[awesom_o]

I'm learning this piece using not sheet music but lit-up keys on my Casio keyboard. I know that this will make most classical pianists cringe, but given the little time that I have available for the piano, this works better for me than struggling with the written music.

If your time at the piano really was precious, you wouldn't want to waste any of it trying to learn difficult literature using the lit-up-keys method.

Nobody learns pieces by first memorizing the order of the notes 100% correctly without any musicality, and only then working on the musicality. That is a bit like saying

 "I'm going to learn how to speak a new language-say, for instance, Japanese. Because I have very little time to devote to learning Japanese, I won't use any of the traditional, tried-and-true methods of language learning. Instead, I will sit down with the Japanese-English dictionary, and memorize the entire thing. Only once I have memorized all of the vocabulary will I begin to construct basic sentences and conversations in Japanese. I know language teachers will cringe, and criticize my approach heavily. But I don't have enough time to learn Japanese, so I'm just going to memorize it. This works better for me than struggling with basic communication in Japanese"



I wish you the best of luck in your endeavor. Perhaps some others here will chime in, and offer you serious, tangible advice about how to memorize the entire LH of this Nocturne, using the lit-up-keys method.


I doubt it, though.

[olivetree]

Oh god no, mechanical practicing's not good for you...

I'd advice learning how to read music. It'll help out a lot.

What is mechanical about memorizing it first and then working on musicality?

I agree that it would be much more helpful to learn to read music. Once it is learned (at least roughly), it will be much easier to learn new pieces.

[wildetudor]

Many thanks for all replies, I do appreciate the advice, even if (as I expected) it involves some advice to give up the lit-up-keys method. I really don't care whether it's this method or the music reading one that enables me to play. I do read music, however it's a slow process, and it simply seems that the former is enabling me to learn much quicker. For instance, pieces that I've learnt include the 1st movement of Moonlight Sonata, Chopin's preludes op.28 nos. 4 and 20, etc. It would have taken me much longer to learn them using the latter method. I'm really just talking about the memorisation stage, as afterwards it's only keeping it fresh by playing it from memory anyway.

Since it was not the point of the question, I didn't really describe my method in detail, however it doesn't simply involve getting straight to memorisation - the first step is always listening carefully several times to a good recording of it, while studying the printed music. With this overview in mind, I then try to reproduce each measure at a time, much like Olivetree described.

[olivetree]

Nobody learns pieces by first memorizing the order of the notes 100% correctly without any musicality, and only then working on the musicality.

Of course, it doesn't make sense to memorize the notes only in your head before playing them. But that's not what he meant, is it? You memorize notes by sightreading them (reading and playing at the same time). The longer the process of memorization has proceeded, the easier it gets to work on expression. Trying to work on musicality when you see the sheet for the first time is impossible for beginners and intermediate players.

[wildetudor]

Of course, it doesn't make sense to memorize the notes only in your head before playing them. But that's not what he meant, is it? You memorize notes by sightreading them (reading and playing at the same time). The longer the process of memorization has proceeded, the easier it gets to work on expression. Trying to work on musicality when you see the sheet for the first time is impossible for beginners and intermediate players.

Fully agree.

[awesom_o]

Trying to work on musicality when you see the sheet for the first time is impossible for beginners and intermediate players.

Really? So an intermediate player simply could NOT open up a hymnal and play the hymns at sight with any level of musicality whatsoever?

That doesn't sound particularly intermediate to me! 

[outin]

I think I am a bit lost about what musicality actually means to people.

Trying to learn the notes without trying to make music is something I cannot even think about doing...The notes already contain so much music...one just has to reveal it somehow...

If I actually could read and memorize the sheets before even touching the piano, that would certainly save me a lot of time! Hopefully some day...Before I used to do everything by the piano, but at least now I sometimes go to bed with my sheet music 

[kevin69]

Of course, it doesn't make sense to memorize the notes only in your head before playing them. But that's not what he meant, is it? You memorize notes by sightreading them (reading and playing at the same time). The longer the process of memorization has proceeded, the easier it gets to work on expression. Trying to work on musicality when you see the sheet for the first time is impossible for beginners and intermediate players.

Perhaps 'musicality' means something different for you than for me, but as a novice pianist i'd say that 'trying to work on musicality' is exactly what i do when i see the sheet music for the first time.

The first thing i try and do is not to memorise the notes but to try to get a feel for the rhythms of the melody, and from that i get an idea for how the piece should sound in my mind (i'm much more rhythm orientated than pitch orientated). Until i have a clear mental concept of the rhythms i can't group single notes into larger groups, so i can't possibly memorise anything. What works for me is to start by playing the RH only until i find some musicality, and then the LH, fingering, memorisation and technical issues come later.

I'm a bit puzzled by your description of working on expression later on in the process: if you don't know what you want the piece to sound like, how can you decide what fingering to use?

However, if it works for you...

[awesom_o]

Trying to learn the notes without trying to make music is something I cannot even think about doing...The notes already contain so much music...one just has to reveal it somehow...

Good post!

[j_menz]

Trying to work on musicality when you see the sheet for the first time is impossible for beginners and intermediate players.

Why? I'd say it's just as easy, and just as vital - perhaps even moreso - for them as advanced players.  You're learning to read music, after all, not just notes. 

[awesom_o]

Why? I'd say it's just as easy, and just as vital - perhaps even moreso - for them as advanced players.  You're learning to read music, after all, not just notes. 

+1!

[olivetree]

Why? I'd say it's just as easy, and just as vital - perhaps even moreso - for them as advanced players.  You're learning to read music, after all, not just notes. 

Obviously you have to build the fundament first before you can start to express yourself through the music. When I get stuck somewhere and think to myself "Uh what chord is that? Oh I see... yeah that sounds good... now I know" I wouldn't call this making music yet. That would be like claiming I'm building a house when I'm just buying the materials for it. I'm not self confident or good enough to deny that this is a normal process I'm going through in each piece I start working on. Perhaps you guys are?

I'm not saying that you always should go like "first the cake, then the cream", but it is obvious that it is harder to focus on everything at once from the very beginning: the notes, the fingering, the touch, the dynamics, the rhythm, the tempo, the pedaling etc. At least for me.  Sometimes I might work on several aspects simultaneously without noticing (I believe that a part of the learning process always is subconscious), but the more sophisticated the piece is, the more I'm following a step-by-step approach. What's wrong about that?

But nevermind. This is off-topic anyways. I think we are misunderstanding each other by taking our responses too literally. The main idea should be clear, though. The goal of this discussion should be to help this guy with his Chopin 9/2 and not to start a philosophic argument. 

[saranoya]

Given the premise of an instrument with light-up keys, and a student who lacks the ability to read written music, I think the most straightforward way to memorise consists of simply playing only the left hand, over and over, with the help of the light-up keys. Preferably under tempo. Rinse and repeat until it simply "sticks".

[pytheamateur]

When learning a piece, try also to remember the sound, with the subtleties of the harmonies.  This helps with learning new pieces and also trains your ears to listen to what you play, which is essential if you want to progress to a high level.

[outin]

Obviously you have to build the fundament first before you can start to express yourself through the music. When I get stuck somewhere and think to myself "Uh what chord is that? Oh I see... yeah that sounds good... now I know" I wouldn't call this making music yet. That would be like claiming I'm building a house when I'm just buying the materials for it. I'm not self confident or good enough to deny that this is a normal process I'm going through in each piece I start working on. Perhaps you guys are?

I guess I never even think about expressing myself through music, I just want to bring the music into life. I guess the expression part is the choices I make about how to play something, because the notes only contain a limited amount of information and there are many more choices to make when learning a piece. And these choices I begin to make from the first time I look at the score, even if I may change them later for something better.

I usually first try to play through the piece once just to get an idea how it should sound (concentrating more on the flow of the music than individual notes), but then I will of course go through the piece figuring out all kinds of details just like you. But not the whole piece at once, I take one phrase or section at the time and try to play that both technically well and the way I feel it should sound (and then get the second opinions from the teacher). I am not able to learn things without adding some meaning to them. I think the meaning creates the musicality: Why this chord or note and not something else? Why the note lengths are the way they are? How to make the individual notes sound good and still play fluently? Of course I don't consciously think this way, but I know my mind is full of such stuff when I learn a new piece. It can take me several months to really memorize and get the whole piece "into my hands" and I doubt I could even do that if I just tried to memorize the notes without thinking about much more.

[awesom_o]

I guess I never even think about expressing myself through music, I just want to bring the music into life.

This is the best approach! Beware of people who think that playing classical music is all about self-expression. In reality, it is about bringing to life the ideas of the greatest musicians who ever lived. 

[lalo57]

Nocturnes are not easy pieces, they are not the hardest ones but they are not easy. In fact, there's no such thing as an easy Chopin. I would recommend trying some preludes first, the raindrop prelude which is just as beautiful as op 9 no 2 would prepare you for it. But since I don't want to discourage you, you have to play the left hand alone and be careful with light touch and balance. Study it with arpeggios and make sure it sounds right not just a chord. In order to play that piece you have to start with the last page. If you succeed at doing the last passage slowly and nice, the octaves part and the thrill ornament, you have nailed it. Still you would be much better prepared if you play a couple of preludes before.

[coda_colossale]

This is the best approach! Beware of people who think that playing classical music is all about self-expression. In reality, it is about bringing to life the ideas of the greatest musicians who ever lived. 

Yes, if you want to be a Yamaha disklavier. Artistry inevitably requires the expression of ego. Rachmaninoff himself would disagree with this statement.

[jollisg]

I think it will help you if you use the score. Then you will see the chords. When you use lit up keys, you won't see if it's a G sharp or an A flat, a G or an A double flat (if you say it like that in english). That helps more than you think (at least I believe that)

[outin]

Yes, if you want to be a Yamaha disklavier. Artistry inevitably requires the expression of ego. Rachmaninoff himself would disagree with this statement.

Everything one does is filtered through one's own system. There's no reason to TRY to express oneself, when it happens inevitably anyway.