Self-doubt and low self-esteem

[throwawaynotreally]

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[hardy_practice]

It's the art that counts, nothing else.

[throwawaynotreally]

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[hardy_practice]

Not sure if I can.  If you're really in it for the long haul then it's only a dedication to the art that will keep you going.  If you haven't got that no prizes or accolades etc. are going to sustain.  Not even money! believe it or not - which should be a sacrifice you're more than happy to make.  One piece of advice - seek out the very best teachers, and by that I mean globally the best!    

[throwawaynotreally]

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[hardy_practice]

Well, you'll need to pardon me if I can't understand how being a 'somebody' can possibly exist on the same plane as being an artist.  In fact I see them as pretty much getting in the way of each other.  In art, yourself is the first thing you lose.

[throwawaynotreally]

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[hardy_practice]

I'l finish with this:  I've dedicated my life to music, I'm a nobody, but after a good day at work I go home laughing my head off!

[kriatina]

Well, you'll need to pardon me if I can't understand how being a 'somebody' can possibly exist on the same plane as being an artist.  In fact I see them as pretty much getting in the way of each other.  In art, yourself is the first thing you lose.

I don't understand you yet... do you mean that being an artist
and "being somebody" (as an artist?) cannot be combined ?
What do you mean by saying that do the two get into the way of each other?
Do you mean it in the context that the only way to "get somewhere"
is for the pianist and/or artist to compromise to such an extend
that their artistry and individuality "go missing"
and that the pianist/artist exchanges his/her art in order to "be accepted"
and the only way to "be accepted and get somewhere" means to sacrifice art ?
Thank you from Kristina.

[bronnestam]

Becoming a pianist and competing in contests are two very different things. If you want to dedicate your life to being a musician, then do so, and do it in faith. #¤%& the contests. Never compete with anyone but yourself. Spend your energy on learning how to play well and to understand the music, spend your energy on listening to other good musicians, on playing with others, experimenting, joking, enjoying - learn how to enjoy every moment of your musician life and you will BE a musician without paying in blood, sweat, tears and your own self-doubt.

If the world of music and piano playing is NOT the world where you want to indulge yourself as much as you possibly can, then you should consider choosing another profession. (No shame in that. You can still play as a hobby, you know.) But if it is, then just enter. If you are happy there, you need no silly contests! You don't care about them! And your self esteem will of course never be low as long as you are happy.

 

[hardy_practice]

I don't understand you yet... do you mean that being an artist
and "being somebody" (as an artist?) cannot be combined ?
What do you mean by saying that do the two get into the way of each other?
Do you mean it in the context that the only way to "get somewhere"
is for the pianist and/or artist to compromise to such an extend
that their artistry and individuality "go missing"
and that the pianist/artist exchanges his/her art in order to "be accepted"
and the only way to "be accepted and get somewhere" means to sacrifice art ?
Thank you from Kristina.

That's nearly the other side of the coin, but it's not relevant.  You can't be engrossed in something without losing yourself.  I think you'll find the artists the OP is referring too are 'somebody' for somebody else.  They themselves are too busy engaged in doing what they do.  Just as an example take Alec Guinness - you know he never watched any of his films?  This modern celebrity culture is a false culture.

[kopower]

Dear throwawayreally

Don't think about what you don't have in your life
Think about what you do have, and how you have MORE THAN A LOT OF PEOPLE

For example, I am much older adult now - and I WISH I could go back in time and take my piano more seriously, AND win in the 1 competition that I failed in.
AND you have "won many competitions"
So there you go - you have achieved more than many !

Good luck, chin up, be happy!

[pianist1976]

Success and public recognition aren't necessarily the same thing. Success, in my view and humble opinion, is a never ending internal growing proccess, what the Japanese name (please correct me if I'm wrong) Kaizen (translated sometimes as CANI, Constant And Never Ending Improvement). Focus on being a better person, musician, pianist every day and "else shall be added onto you". Focus on what you can control. Let go what you cannot.

Don't get obssesed by the instant gratification and temporary public recognition that one receives when wins a price on a competition. Nor, at the other extreme, start thinking you suck at the piano because you lost one. Competitions may be a way to build a carreer... or not. In any case, it's not (fortunately) the only way.

Marguerite Long used to say that the café parisien ambience pianos were played by several international first price winners...

[stephenv]

Not sure if this helps or not.  Sometimes knowing of other pianists lives and what they experienced can be revealing and inspiring.

I have read that Dame Myra Hess struggled with establishing a concert career at first.  She was to the point of giving up completely.  However, she continued and taught for a while, finally her playing was recognized and her career manifested itself.   Her frist public perfomrance in a concert setting was in 1912....her concert career was established in the mid 1920's!   Her devotion to her art overcame the initial feeling of failure. 

I am not so fond of "competitions" as a means of establishing one's career as a musician.  I know I know....that's the fast track way and the norm.   It may sound corney in the 21st century but devotion to one's art to me far outweighs "winning."     TEACH and keep practicing and developing as a musician!  Banish any thought of giving up! 

[pianoplayer51]

It is hard when we think we are a failure but as others have said, maybe think about what you have done and be happy at that.

[throwawaynotreally]

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[throwawaynotreally]

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[throwawaynotreally]

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[hfmadopter]

Thank you. However, you've got to admit that these things are much easier said than done.

I don't consider myself "obsessed" about said things, it's just that the idea of me failing almost every single audition and not getting through the second round shatters my self-confidence a lot, especially seeing that some of the other kids, who I think are unmusical and robotic, almost always do.

But this is exactly the point some folks are trying to make in this thread ! To win competitions you have to play the way judges wat it. Do you want to play mechanically and robotically ? No, you want emotion and musicality in your performance I assume. You need to throw that out and play like a robot to win then. Great ! And at that, probably a certain kind of robot. Music is not about winning anything, it comes from the heart, the soul and when it goes well it wins over the hearts and souls of listeners of your playing. You then love yourself and your piano and possibly so do some other folks love your music. Its wonderful and life fulfilling that way. Competition is about stress and anxiety , the proof of that is in yourself right now. Its how you feel, let down and anxious to do what ?

[throwawaynotreally]

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[bronnestam]

I have never participated in a contest nor have I been to auditions. Grading systems are not used here, or at least I have never heard of them.

I sincerely believe these things are no good. Music is about art, about entertainment, about joy. Never compare yourself with anyone else. What those "robotic kids" do is not interesting, neither is it interesting if they get higher ranks than you.
You must believe in yourself and in your music. I think you don't right now, and so you long for a contest/audition result that will tell you the things you cannot tell yourself. This will not work. You will feel empty in long terms. One day you will be successful while you are dissatisfied with your own performance, or the opposite, and this will make you feel miserable.

Believe me, I have seen this happen so many times in different situations, but the bottom line is always: trust your inner voice. This does not mean you should not listen to constructive critizism and teachings, of course, but still YOU have to evaluate the advice you get. Could this be right? Is it useful for me?

[faa2010]

Dear throwawaynotreally,

I think I can understand you, even though I am 28, I also read the other replies and I agree that the most important thing is not to lose yourself.

I have also passed something similar and I felt that I was losing the real point: when you love the art, the craft, you don't have to care if that will bring you praise, fame, fortune and success as most movies and TV series have painted it, also you don't have to be better than others or the best in the whole world.

I can understand it can be difficult, but one doesn't have to depend of what others say or think, even though they are considered experts in the subject. Of course, that doesn't mean that one shouldn't listen as well to the constructive critics and opinions.

My point of view is that exams, competences, critics, opinions of others are good as long as they help one to be a better artist, they won't be good if one expects approval, admiration of others, including from the people who are considered experts.

You can take a rest and once you get better, you will want to play again.

[throwawaynotreally]

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[throwawaynotreally]

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[bronnestam]

Thank you. I think the main problem is/was, I don't know whether to trust that inner voice of mine sometimes.

I suppose your inner voice just told you to take a break from heavy practicing, as you describe in your other posting here ... everything has its time, you know. Maybe your other studies are more important for you at the moment. Do not worry, you still will have the time to make a nice pianist career later, if you like. Your inner voice speaks through your feelings, and yes, you CAN trust it. If something makes you feel bad in one way or the other, then do not push it. If something makes you feel just good, happy and satisfied - go for it! Because if you do what makes you happy and content, you will get a happy and content life. With or without the piano!
 

[throwawaynotreally]

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[minimax]

What I am going to write here comes from hard work I had to do to gain and prove that knowledge. Nothing read here should be taken for granted because you may like it. You need to do your part to prove it for yourself. Otherwise it will be like a school knowledge - quickly forgotten.

The key to our successes and failures lies in our thinking and feelings only. Toughs have a might in themselves which is not recognized by a lot of people, since many believe that power lies elsewhere but within.  A thought always proceeds an action even when it is not recognized. In our younger years we are programmed like a computer. A lot of our thoughts came from others: parents/school/TV etc., and we did not have a say in it.  We become others in a way. But the time comes when we can shape our life by consciously choosing our thoughts. By giving attention to them we give them life, and at some point in the future we have to experience the fruits of our thinking.  People tend to blame others for all their misfortunes, but this is a huge mistake. When one proves to oneself that indeed we are 100% responsible for what happens to us, then the blaming stops. Outside world is a mirror of our own thinking processes. When you know that, you can search inside for beliefs, attachments, aversions and remove what should not be there. Our psyche is like a garden. We should remove “weeds” and nurture the good “plants”.

How to do it?

Thoughts are always connected with a feeling, so it is not hard to recognize them in our bodies as we always feel something. They form a electromagnetic field within a body which we call a psyche. Our psyche is a collection of a totality of our thoughts and feelings. We are usually aware only of a small portion of them and the rest lies in our subconscious. The trick lies in recognizing the appearing in the NOW thoughts and looking for a connected with them feelings in our bodies. Feelings are the sign posts so to say. When you can recognize and name (there are 9 basic ones: apathy, grief, fear, lust, anger, pride, courageousness, acceptance, peace)  your feelings, you can remove them with attached to them thoughts. by simply stating that you want them out of your consciousness. Any set of words will do it – but it has to have a conscious will to do it behind them – a not just a simple repeating the words. Another important thing to know is that some feelings are painful and we are always suppressing/running away from them. We do not even know that we do it. So it is vital to allow all feelings to come up so we can recognize them and remove them. Allowing is also a simple thought with a wanting for it to be so.


How to think properly?

Neutrality is the key. Proper thinking is a equal measure of negative and positive. Accept everything that comes in life and try not to get emotional. You create everything with your thinking so accept the consequences even when you cannot recognize the cause of it. By judging yourself and others you dig a whole for yourself into which one day you will have to fall in. When you know that yours and others core being is love, harmony and peace (and for that to happen you need to read proper texts and see the logic in them), and the behavior is only thoughts from psyche actualized in action, then you not equate the person with their behavior. You see that only as mistakes which can be corrected. So you judge the behavior and not the person. When you apply that to You, you do not see Yourself as miserable, not worthy, fill the rest in..... . Blaming oneself is the worst thing to do. If you do not head to that rule, than life will not be treating you well. The proper way is to see your mistakes, without judging and just trying not to repeat them. Life should be enjoyed in its totality and can be, if we know how to steer it the right way. Learning to be at the same time aware of our thoughts inside and world outside of us is a way to gain control.

What I wrote here is a lot for a 15 years old young man\woman, or anybody else not familiar with the matter. It takes time, sometimes years to prove all of it and apply it in life. So the key again is..... patience, patience .. and more patience. Open mind is also an asset.

All the best to You.

Andrew

P.S.
Should you want to find out more, find the few posts of mine on this forum, where you will find references.

[bronnestam]

I thought that MAYBE this song could be of some comfort:

Like I said, I don't like competitions. If I found myself in a piano competition I am sure I would just hate it. I would hate my competitors - either they would suck in my taste, or they would be just annoyingly good (baaah, broilers! Brats!) I would hate the judges if they did not praise me enough and I would probably hate myself too because I would for sure feel nervous and let myself down etcetera, etcetera.

But you know what? I really love to play the piano! I am quite sure that my "hatred" for the competition, all my bad feelings about everything in this competition, in fact is my inner voice shouting THIS IDEA IS NOTHING! GET OUTTA HERE! at me. It is NOT, though, shouting at me that I should not play the piano anymore.

[throwawaynotreally]

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[faulty_damper]

Do you know what the actual problem is?  You don't have anyone to confide in, aka: a friend.  The alternative to a friend is family, but then you already know how they react.  There is no alternative for a friend.  A friend simply isn't something that can be found easily.  But a friend has the power to lift and maintain a positive mood.  S/he can also help improve your piano performances simply by being supportive, amongst other things.  This is your actual problem, not the poor success you've had at competitions.

[throwawaynotreally]

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[throwawaynotreally]

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[gregh]

Mr. Notreally,

You're 15. Your life isn't over yet. It has barely begun. When you're twice your age you'll be starting to see your potential, and you still won't know where you'll be ten years later. But right now it's virtually impossible to be somebody. Most 15 year olds are nobodies. They might think they're smarter and better than everyone else, or at least that they should be, and that's normal. You play better than most 15 year olds, and you're doing fine.

In three years you'll be applying to college. Four years after that you could be graduating with a performance degree. So seven years from now you'll be an inexperienced newbie with a piano and a degree. That's another half of a lifetime, and remember that you weren't even playing for much of your first half.

You're too young to be worrying about being a somebody. Right now, just play and enjoy it. Now, I'm a lot older than you are, and I really am a nobody. Once you're sure that you can get the bills paid, it's not so bad.

By the way, by all means talk to your friends. Even if they're not going through what you are, even if they can't personally identify with your problems, they can identify with you. But, while friends have an obligation to listen and sympathize, friends don't abuse that privilege. Don't obsess.

[faulty_damper]

I think that is one problem. I'm rather introverted, but do have a couple of amazing friends. I could probably talk to them about anything to be honest, however, in this case I'm just afraid that they won't understand what I'm going through, or was going through.

There are people you hang out with, people you shop with, people you chat with, but these don't necessarily mean these people are friends. The word "friend" is tossed around too often that it no longer has the meaning it once had.  In your situation, what you describe would not fit the definition of friend, someone with whom you can confide in and feel safe doing so.


"Fame is this generation's black plague." ~ Rat Billings

I sort of understand since I'm a generation before yours.  This is what Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous (a 90's TV show) has unleashed upon our new generations.  No longer are the rich and famous relegated to a select few - everyone with a YouTube and Twitter account thinks they can become famous.  Kids nowadays would rather be famous than happy. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/6250626/Children-would-rather-become-popstars-than-teachers-or-lawyers.html

Kids these days are also a lot more narcissistic than any generation before.
https://www.generationme.org/aboutbook.html

And kids these days are also more depressed than ever before.
https://www.apa.org/monitor/2009/01/teens.aspx

The sad thing is that all of this can be traced back to self-esteem research in the 80s, which was implemented by teachers in the 80s-90s, and these kids grew up, had children, and raised their own children (this current new generation) to think in terms of boosting their own ego and self-esteem.

Unfortunately, the interpretation of that self-esteem research was incorrect.  (Never let teachers interpret scientific research; they are too illiterate to understand anything that is written.)  Instead of giving false praise to boost self-esteem (teachers, unfortunately, still do this), self-esteem can only be had by having meaningful relationships with friends, family, and sometimes god (church, etc.).  It can also be had by becoming knowledgeable and skilled at ones tasks, known as "self-efficacy" in the literature.

Sorry for rambling, but in truth, you don't have friends.  What you have are acquaintances with whom you can do and talk about stuff, but not relate and be accepted.  If they truly cared about you without judgement, then they would accept your flawed being as you are and you'd feel comfortable telling them anything.  Instead, you're telling us, anonymous strangers on the internet.

[keypeg]

Sorry for rambling, but in truth, you don't have friends.

You don't know this person, and you don't know the people you say are not friends. None of us do.  This is a destructive thing to say.  It is possible to be shy about talking to people who may indeed be real friends, and who might care deeply.  And talking about such things is especially difficult when you are a young teen.

[faulty_damper]

It's not destructive.  It's being direct and truthful.  If you understood the entirety of my post, you'll understand that you're doing exactly what I implicitly stated against.  Feel-good speech may work at a political campaign rally, but not when you're trying to help someone out.  In such times, they need all the truth they can get because real life doesn't give it out freely.  You'd have to be smart and experienced enough to understand the subtext of what people are really saying/doing.

Here's an example of exactly what I mean:
I knew a 16-year-old boy who was both black and gay. Now, being black AND gay is a really bad thing if you're black because blacks are incredibly homophobic and can be incredibly nasty.  So this boy was gay, attending a school with a lot of other blacks.  "FAAAA-GOTT!!!" is what you'd hear both in the hallways and in the classrooms.  Imagine how he felt at hearing these things.  One day, i asked him directly, "are you gay?" "No," he immediately replied.  A moment passed and he asked, "why do you ask that?" "Because you act and talk kind of effeminately." "Is there something wrong with being gay?" he asked.  My response was this: "No."  This was the biggest lie I ever told, in large part because I didn't even think about my answer before I answered.  In truth, there is something wrong with being gay.  Gay men are teased, bullied, beaten, and murdered because of it.  For me to say "no" just reinforced what he already knew, that being gay isn't something you talk about or want to be.  Had I said, "yes", he wouldn't have expected it, and I would have told him that there are a lot of people out there who don't like gay people because they are scared of them.  That's truth, not "no".  Saying "no" was the feel-good, politically correct thing to do and it completely avoided the issue.

[pianoman53]

Yes, Faulty. Clearly you should have said "Yes, there is something wrong with being gay. So change it! While you're at it, don't be black, cause that's also wrong."

And let's make the bullies set the rules, cause then life gets easier.



And again, why do you act like you know him? It's not like he doesn't have friends because that his playing is on a different level.


You clearly don't have any friends. You are more than 30 years old, with no talents. You are incredibly rude and egocentric. I imagine you quite bad looking, frankly, and very very bitter.

Hey, I'm not rude, I'm just being direct and truthful.

[outin]

... Now, being black AND gay is a really bad thing if you're black ... 

Being black and gay if you are not black must be a lot easier 

[throwawaynotreally]

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[pianoman53]

So your teacher isn't really the type you talk to then? They are not only teachers, but should also help you with things like this...

[throwawaynotreally]

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[pianoman53]

Okay, well.. I'm sorry, but she is the one to talk to. So maybe you wont have as much time as playing for her if you talk to her, but it's kind of the only way to go. You really think a bunch of people on the internet, that you don't know, can help you more?

[faulty_damper]

Yes, I think anonymous people on the internet can help him which is why he posted here.  The internet has a much larger group of random people than real life so the chances of finding people who understand is just that much greater.  Hopefully we're helpful. If not, at least we understand.

[throwawaynotreally]

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[faulty_damper]

I wasn't being sarcastic.  In real life, it's rare to meet so many other pianists.

[bronnestam]

Yes, true. I don't know any pianists at all, at least on my level. Well ... to be precise, if I mention people who don't just say "piano???" to me, I know:
- my teacher who is very supportive and nice and plays terribly well. I will meet her next week, hooray
- a concert pianist, the best one I have heard. Also nice and supportive and a great source of inspiration of course, but let's conclude that we are not on the same level ... 
- a bunch of people who mumble things like "oh, I used to play to, but I was just dabbling ... I have forgotten all about it now, yadayadayada"
- some people who, when I tell them I play the piano, make every effort they can to prove that they play much better than I do. I am not a competitive person. Once I used to be sad and hurt, now I just feel contempt and think evil thoughts like "trying to compensate for something, do you?"

So, if I want to discuss piano with "equals", people who play the piano because the love to play the piano, I definitely need to go out on the Internet.
And without the Internet I would not have known this concert pianist, I would not have found resources to get me going again with practicing, I would not have found a good piano, I would not have found the summer school I will attend in a few months - in short, I would have had nothing, and my piano would just have been a piece of furniture to dust here at home. I would have been one of the persons who mumble that they "used to play a litte, once".

[pianoman53]

I didn't say that you shouldn't talk to people on the internet. I just said, that none of us knows you, and clearly don't know how to comfort you. Your teacher knows you, and can probably give more personal advice.

[bronnestam]

One thing does not exclude the other, you know ...

[pianoplunker]

Maybe it's the hormones or something, I dunno, I'm 15.

I can't think of anyone at the moment who I can confidently talk to about this in person, so I'm here.

I've just found out that my application to what would be my first international piano competition has been unsuccessful, and it's starting to become "one of those days" again, when I'm seriously doubting myself on whether I should carry on pursuing what seems to be realistically-speaking an impossible dream. Sometimes I feel like there will always be someone looking down at me, and that I'll never amount to anything, and will just be another nobody. Yes, I'm afraid of becoming a nobody.

Perhaps it's because my teacher restricts me a little in this area, but the pieces I play are less difficult than some people at my age and younger, even in my country. I've won most of the competitions that I've been in, but when it comes to submitting a recording, auditioning or competing to get to a second round, I never succeed. It just really blows my esteem sometimes, especially seeing some people get through who I'm sure I've done more work than.

My self-esteem has been hitting new lows quite lately. I try to approach it with a "f*ck it, I'll try harder next time" but sometimes it really gets the better of me. I can't even listen to the Chopin Concerto No.2 anymore because it reminds me of the botched competition performance I had of it a month ago.

I meant to post this the last time I felt this way, but I just couldn't then. I don't really expect answers or replies to this thread, it's just that I really need to let out my feelings.

Thanks

Your problem is not your piano playing. Your problem is that you are beating yourself up and down as if it is all your FAULT that you didnt get accepted at this time.
I dont want to throw another log on the fire, but your life ( and mine ) is going to always be filled with little disappointments, big disappointments, little successes, and big succeses. would you feel better if you made the big competition and came in dead last place ?  Would you be bragging on this forum that you made the International competition ? You are young and probably dont understand this, but going through these things makes life Better. Once you allow your life to get better no matter what, there will be no stopping you from your potential.  Dont try to narrow your own potential by letting this get to you. Even if you won the international at 15 , you'd probably still be a frustrated hormone-activated teenager and probably find trouble via another route besides piano. Life is filled with it, might as well learn that it is not your fault.
But do take responsibility to correct yourself as needed.

[keypeg]

It's not destructive.  It's being direct and truthful.

It is not truthful.  You do not know this person, and you have never met his friends.

If you understood the entirety of my post,

I did, including your quotes of the usual things we read in the media.

you'll understand that you're doing exactly what I implicitly stated against.  Feel-good speech ...

I gave no "feel good speech".  I wrote that you are stating things that you know nothing about.

In such times, they need all the truth they can get because real life doesn't give it out freely.

What you are stating is not "truth" - it is a guess.

You'd have to be smart and experienced enough to understand the subtext of what people are really saying/doing.

I don't know if you have reached my age, or my experience. I know enough to not assume I know.