p..f...then fp... then f - What is fp for dynamics

[pianoplunker]

Hi,
I have come across a small section in a Beethoven piece called Rondo a Cappricio.  The first part of the section is to be played forte or "f" in the markings, then we play soft when we see a "p" then we come to a couple of bars of "fp" , then we finish the section with a bang as in "f". Question - what the f is fp? Is fp actually a valid marking for dynamics?

[nystul]

As you would expect, fp stands for forte-piano.  It starts forte, and then backs off to piano.  Maybe you have heard a band or orchestra play the start of a long note at a solid forte and immediately get soft.  It is often followed by a building crescendo leading to a strong dramatic finish.  That is probably the most common use of fp. 

[pianoplunker]

As you would expect, fp stands for forte-piano.  It starts forte, and then backs off to piano.  Maybe you have heard a band or orchestra play the start of a long note at a solid forte and immediately get soft.  It is often followed by a building crescendo leading to a strong dramatic finish.  That is probably the most common use of fp. 

That certainly makes sense, I can see how it plays. I dont remember ever seeing it written that way before. Usually I would expect to see an f followed by dim,,.

[iansinclair]

That certainly makes sense, I can see how it plays. I dont remember ever seeing it written that way before. Usually I would expect to see an f followed by dim,,.

There is a distinction intended: if see a forte followed by a dim. or decr., one does it rather gradually -- often the duration of the diminuendo is marked.  A marking of fp, though, is usually intended to indicate a forte attack, followed as closely as possible with a piano -- like the very next note.

[pianoplunker]

There is a distinction intended: if see a forte followed by a dim. or decr., one does it rather gradually -- often the duration of the diminuendo is marked.  A marking of fp, though, is usually intended to indicate a forte attack, followed as closely as possible with a piano -- like the very next note.

I have always seen the "forte attack" written as an accented note. I just never saw it written as fp but it makes sense in this section the way you describe. I will think of it as a forte attack, Beethoven probably wanted it said that way instead of "accented" - too wimpy for this section

[j_menz]

There is a distinction intended: if see a forte followed by a dim. or decr., one does it rather gradually -- often the duration of the diminuendo is marked.  A marking of fp, though, is usually intended to indicate a forte attack, followed as closely as possible with a piano -- like the very next note.

Agreed. It is also usually accompanied by a clearing of the pedal, if you have been holding it.

[pover]

Agreed. It is also usually accompanied by a clearing of the pedal, if you have been holding it.

I didn't know that  That could prove useful. I see a lot of fp in Beethoven, kind of less in Chopin, and usually I spend more time thinking about pedalling in Beethoven than I do in Chopin. I guess this can help reduce that time.

[timothy42b]

I suggest that fp in piano music is bad editing.

It cannot truly be done the way it is done on wind or string instruments (loud without accent then quickly soft).

So the intent is something else.  Why not just mark what that intent really is?