Masculine répertoire :)

[flashyfingers]

Hi! I love masculine pieces, such as Prokofiev sonatas, Rach concertos, Liszt etudes...

What else is along those lines, or what pieces are masculine repertoire milestones?

[schwartzer]

I've never quite heard someone call a piece "masculine"... Do you mean tempestuous pieces?

[visitor]

 

[schwartzer]

 

Oh.

[flashyfingers]

 

NO.

[j_menz]

NO.

I believe masculine repertoire doesn't have the poncy acute accent on the e. 

Other than that, I'm in the dark.

[perprocrastinate]

I believe masculine repertoire doesn't have the poncy acute accent on the e.  

First, I will admit that I pounced at the chance to pedantically correct you. There is an accent aigu on the first e, if you take the French pronunciation.

As for OP, the Brahms Piano Concerti, maybe?

[j_menz]

First, I will admit that I pounced at the chance to pedantically correct you. There is an accent aigu on the first e, if you take the French pronunciation.

There is such an accent if you regard the word as French. I regard it as standard English, derived via the French from the Latin Repertorium but losing such affectation in the process. All sane people agree with me. 

And I still don't understand the whole idea of masculine repertoire.

[cabbynum]

And I still don't understand the whole idea of masculine repertoire.

Me too. I think anything can be played "rough" but I don't think it's masculine. Is that what you mean FF ( take that as fortissimo or flashy fingers)

If you are going for rough violent pieces then I suggest sticking to Prok and Rach. And way more Prok than rach.

I disagree with this whole concept though

[flashyfingers]

Well, in an article about Helene Grimaud, the term masculine repertoire was used. Pieces are referred to in this manner, when a woman plays a piece that seems more suitable for a man, than a sensuous, delicate woman.

Or something like that.

Definitely Prok, though. And Stravinsky.

[j_menz]

Well, in an article about Helene Grimaud, the term masculine repertoire was used. Pieces are referred to in this manner, when a woman plays a piece that seems more suitable for a man, than a sensuous, delicate woman.

Or something like that.

Definitely Prok, though. And Stravinsky.

Sounds like sexist rubbish to me.  Go listen to Myra Hess do the Appassionata.

[dima_76557]

Sounds like sexist rubbish to me.  Go listen to Myra Hess do the Appassionata.

[j_menz]

Bleah!

Not me personally, btw.

[ted]

And I still don't understand the whole idea of masculine repertoire.

A complete mystery to me too I'm afraid, but if that is how some people respond to music, if the association helps, then good for them. Many of my own associations are probably just as personal and silly in any general sense.

[flashyfingers]

Ok...compare Myra hess's playing to Valentina Lisitsa's.

[ahinton]

Sounds like sexist rubbish to me.  Go listen to Myra Hess do the Appassionata.

Indeed - or Argerich play Rach 3...

Best,

Alistair

[flashyfingers]

Indeed - or Argerich play Rach 3...

Best,

Alistair

Exactly!

[perprocrastinate]

Speaking of Rach 3 and masculinity, I listened to this performance last week, and I don't think I've ever heard the ossia cadenza played this powerfully.

[aklvkk]

Speaking of Rach 3 and masculinity, I listened to this performance last week, and I don't think I've ever heard the ossia cadenza played this powerfully.

My favorite version is Yefim Bronfman's, which is a real treat for the ears

Also, if you're into Prokofiev, Gutierrez has a real nice version of his second concerto, and I don't think I've ever heard anyone play with such speed and accuracy, as most compromise one for the other.

[flashyfingers]

Thank you!

I am working on Rach 1 right now. Just about done with the 1st movement, including Cadenza. I find it very patriotic sounding. I love it.

[blazekenny]

I basically think all of the piano repertoire is written for men. Now I am not saying there arent some great female pianists out there. But women have much more trouble with it. For big, powerful pieces, such as Brahms f minor sonata, one just needs the weight of a bus to not have the harsh sound (Have you ever seen Argerich´s muscular arms ?)
On the other hand, there are many soft pieces, which express the love of a man to a woman, like the 3 Petrarch sonnets, which are about passionate adoration of Laura.
Or the Les Adieux sonata has been written because Archduke Rudolph, Beethovens great friend, sponsor, noble, and a great pianist, left. I think that the friendship between two men is very different than the friendship of two women. My professor is female and calmly admits all of this.

I dont mean to start a rage war, I just think its interresting to think about it this way.

[flashyfingers]

thank you, blazekenny 

[coda_colossale]

Well, blazekenny I think you are right! Not piano repertoire, but probably all inspired art in existence is masculine.
Why?

Obviously, because they were created by men.

There is a pretty Freudian explanation to that: Men simply have higher and more persistent libidos. If not used in sexual activities, or rather if one is not able to do so (I'm not sure if celibacy would work), it is discharged in an other way. Werther commits suicide and some people create art instead. Therefore, it not only boosts your creative potential, but is almost always the reason for the creation of great art, especially in the romantic era, since in other eras there were and are other purposes and ideal contents for art. That's called sublimation.

This may sound kinda weird, but I like that my deep love is unrequited, so my sexual drive remains repressed.

Brahms, Schubert, Beethoven, Mahler, Berlioz, Janáček, Berg, Tchaikovsky, Chopin, and probably Rachmaninoff are all great examples.

[flashyfingers]

So, do you think that perhaps, women with higher testosterone levels have higher libidos? Actually, yes.

https://www.sharecare.com/health/sex-and-relationships/article/testosterone-boosts-sex-drive

https://health.yahoo.net/experts/womentoday/women-and-testosterone

Does not mean that women should take substitutes, to increase their testosterone level. The point is, if you have high testosterone as a woman, you have to maintain that level. If you drop below that or above that, there will be some changes. Same with men.

I don't mean to change the subject, but Coda, you have made a very good point.

We all know that females born with high testosterone levels develop "masculine" attributes, as they become adults. 

[mysterium]

Of course almost all piano repertoire is written for men. It is written by men, for men. A composer writes from his own starting point and since women has not been allowed to take a big part in society (culture, positions of power, whatever) not much has been created by women, for women. Unfortunately we live in a world that has always neglected female capacity, altough we can clearly see that is is changing   Just think of all the musical geniuses we could have had if women had the same rights as men during the last centuries.. Thinking especially of some personal favourites who managed to stick their names into musical history despite trouble with their gender (Cécile Chaminade is a good example...).

[flashyfingers]

Of course almost all piano repertoire is written for men. It is written by men, for men. A composer writes from his own starting point and since women has not been allowed to take a big part in society (culture, positions of power, whatever) not much has been created by women, for women. Unfortunately we live in a world that has always neglected female capacity, altough we can clearly see that is is changing   Just think of all the musical geniuses we could have had if women had the same rights as men during the last centuries.. Thinking especially of some personal favourites who managed to stick their names into musical history despite trouble with their gender (Cécile Chaminade is a good example...).

Reproduction used to be much more controlled and controlled more naturally. Now, reproduction is greatly affected negatively, due to centuries of genetic molding. Sickness is very unpredictable, as well as death. Centuries ago, if a person was ill, you could assume this was the way they would die...

Now, women and men from many different genetic backgrounds mate, and god knows what kind of war their country has just had. It is just very unpredictable that they have a healthy offspring or not. There were many experiments consumers unknowingly participated in, god knows what kind of baby food was given to new generations...

It is either likely or unlikely that a baby girl would grow up to have normally high testosterone levels.


Perhaps, how girls perceive/intelligence affects their dietary needs, as well, resulting in a high-testosterone threshold.

Just a rambling, really quick.

[flashyfingers]

Indeed, my conclusion is plausible

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/03/110311153549.htm

[j_menz]

Of course almost all piano repertoire is written for men. It is written by men, for men.

Elise was a man? Therese?

Schumann rewrote the last movement of his second Piano Sonata specifically for Clara (at her insistence).

What about the Transcendental Etudes?

I suspect quite a lot of the repertoire written by men was written to impress the ladies. And often for no other reason.

[flashyfingers]

Elise was a man? Therese?

Schumann rewrote the last movement of his second Piano Sonata specifically for Clara (at her insistence).

What about the Transcendental Etudes?

I suspect quite a lot of the repertoire written by men was written to impress the ladies. And often for no other reason.

Exactly. Impress the ladies, LIKE, "LOOK WHAT I CAN DO, BECAUSE I HAVE ALL THAT TESTOSTERONE!!"

[cabbynum]

Elise was a man? Therese?

Schumann rewrote the last movement of his second Piano Sonata specifically for Clara (at her insistence).

What about the Transcendental Etudes?

I suspect quite a lot of the repertoire written by men was written to impress the ladies. And often for no other reason.

A friend of my snapped his elbow and shattered his tailbone trying to do masculine repertoire. All though his instrument was the snowboard

[cabbynum]

Exactly. Impress the ladies, LIKE, "LOOK WHAT I CAN DO, BECAUSE I HAVE ALL THAT TESTOSTERONE!!"

So all you want are show off pieces?

[flashyfingers]

So all you want are show off pieces?

No. That is a really cold way of putting it. But I do have a lot of testosterone that I need to manage, somehow...

I actually have my pieces picked out and started, and these should keep me busy for a few months, now.

I'm really just trying to find my niche, where I am happily working, and easily ignoring those who say that classical music and piano is a dying art...

[cabbynum]

No. That is a really cold way of putting it. But I do have a lot of testosterone that I need to manage, somehow...

I actually have my pieces picked out and started, and these should keep me busy for a few months, now.

I'm really just trying to find my niche, where I am happily working, and easily ignoring those who say that classical music and piano is a dying art...

Go mountain biking.

Sorry it was cold

What pieces are you working on?

[cuberdrift]

There is a pretty Freudian explanation to that: Men simply have higher and more persistent libidos. If not used in sexual activities, or rather if one is not able to do so (I'm not sure if celibacy would work), it is discharged in an other way. Werther commits suicide and some people create art instead. Therefore, it not only boosts your creative potential, but is almost always the reason for the creation of great art, especially in the romantic era, since in other eras there were and are other purposes and ideal contents for art. That's called sublimation.

So you are basically saying that men with repressed sexual and/or romantic desires are the reason for great art?

This may sound kinda weird, but I like that my deep love is unrequited, so my sexual drive remains repressed.

Alright...this bit of your post bothered me somehow. Lacking a partner, this would mean that I would make a better composer, creating far more passionate masterpieces, if I neither masturbated nor got the woman I wanted?? 

I'm only really slightly disturbed because there's something to that that I would, by virtue of some experience, agree with...

[j_menz]

So you are basically saying that men with repressed sexual and/or romantic desires are the reason for great art?

For every example to support that theory, there is at least another to refute it.

Bach? Mozart? Chopin? Liszt?

[flashyfingers]

Z

[j_menz]

@jmenz, what about Bach and Mozart?
I have my theories, but what is your point? (Not to sound rude! I mean, are you trying to make an exception?)

They were both married (Bach twice), apparently happily, and had children at a rate that suggests a regular sex life.  Not exactly the frustrated, loveless, miserable life suggested as a prerequisite for the creation of great art.

[flashyfingers]

They were both married (Bach twice), apparently happily, and had children at a rate that suggests a regular sex life.  Not exactly the frustrated, loveless, miserable life suggested as a prerequisite for the creation of great art.

Definitely not, but I do see Bach and Mozart's music to be more systematic. (And I am not trying to dismiss their music in any way.) As opposed to Chopin, who's music seemed sporadic, heavily dependent on whether he was sick or not, and also his job of teaching piano, and concerts.

[cabbynum]

You guys are hastily accusing one another and jumping to conclusions.

Welcome to pianostreet...

[flashyfingers]

Welcome to pianostreet...

I was just implying that by the rules of philosophy, someone was stating false arguments