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Can We Play Like Mozart Did?

Classical piano pieces by such composers as Beethoven, Mozart and Chopin likely sounded much different when the masters first performed those works than they do today. Pianos themselves have changed considerably — but so, too, has technique. Read more >>

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Author Topic: Arthur Rubinstein Competition 2014  (Read 10330 times)
schumaniac
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« on: May 19, 2014, 05:16:19 AM »

There's no way I'm the only person following it! A lot of good teachers' students flock here; Trifonov won last time it was held... Sadly, the live broadcast takes place at 2AM my time, but the recordings are posted on their channel:

http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCaALFY8vrqIZ3haGXhSZStA

Discuss and post your opinions here, I guess!
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j_menz
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« Reply #1 on: May 19, 2014, 05:31:12 AM »

It seems a shame that all the compulsory elements (the two commissioned pieces aside), and the "A Romantic Piece" and "A Classical Piece" for the elective elements are so unadventurous. It's hard to conceive that Rubinstein, who championed so much non-standard repertoire in his own time, could be anything other than appalled.
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pianoman53
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« Reply #2 on: May 19, 2014, 05:53:13 AM »

I created a thread last competition, but there was not much discussion going on as I remember it.

But anyway, this competition is quite good, I think. There are quite a few interesting pianists there. Though, I can't say I'm very fond of the talk between the contestants. It always becomes so pretentious and shallow.

It will be interesting to see the semifinalists.
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pianoman53
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« Reply #3 on: May 19, 2014, 07:29:38 PM »

Last pianist has finished. Any favorites?
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pianoman53
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« Reply #4 on: May 19, 2014, 08:17:35 PM »

I'm not very pleased with the way they selected the finalists
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schumaniac
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« Reply #5 on: May 19, 2014, 10:54:36 PM »

I'm not very pleased with the way they selected the finalists

What do you mean? It's only the preliminary round...
Or do you mean the way they selected the people to be in the preliminary round? I usually don't refer to them as "finalists." Anyway, I heard that they didn't actually try out; they just had to submit a CV or something like that...?

By the way, what did you guys think of the commissioned pieces? For one thing, the "Subconscious Labyrinths" piece was terrible... and the title honestly does not make much sense!
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schumaniac
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« Reply #6 on: May 20, 2014, 03:02:40 AM »

Last pianist has finished. Any favorites?
Hmm I haven't really followed the competition that much honestly, because I don't have much time. I just stumbled on the link :p

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schumaniac
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« Reply #7 on: May 20, 2014, 03:04:18 AM »

Oh I just realized they announced the competitors for the next stage. Yes, you can definitely see that I didn't follow the competition much. There were the people I expected- Steven Lin (really good at the Cliburn but didn't advance), Koziak (although I really didn't like his Cliburn performance), Maria Mazo, Ran Dank, Sun Yutong, Leonardo Colafelice (only 18), Seong-jin Cho (one of my favorites).

Edit: here they are- http://www.arims.org.il/competition2014/index.php/schedule
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schumaniac
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« Reply #8 on: May 20, 2014, 11:29:07 PM »

Wow, the discussion here is pretty much stagnant...
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mjames
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« Reply #9 on: May 21, 2014, 12:25:17 AM »

It seems a shame that all the compulsory elements (the two commissioned pieces aside), and the "A Romantic Piece" and "A Classical Piece" for the elective elements are so unadventurous. It's hard to conceive that Rubinstein, who championed so much non-standard repertoire in his own time, could be anything other than appalled.

Agreed.
"• The Competitor shall choose editions that adhere to the original text.
• All pieces must be performed from memory, except for the Chamber Music.
• The Competitor shall play only those pieces which she/he has stated on the Application Form. No changes will be permitted after April 10, 2014.
• Accurate timings of all pieces chosen must be indicated on the online Application Form.
• The Competitor must ensure that the time limits stipulated for Stages I & II in the Competition Rules shall not be exceeded.
• Competitors who adhere to the given time limits will not be interrupted.
• The pieces may be performed with or without repeats, at the Competitor’s discretion.
• No work shall be repeated at any stage of the Competition.
• The Competitor may add an encore piece of not more than 3 minutes in all stages of the Competition."

The world of classical music is so strict. Sad
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j_menz
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« Reply #10 on: May 21, 2014, 01:03:00 AM »

The world of classical music is so strict. Sad

And yet so adoring of those who broke the rules - so long as they did it many years ago.
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mjames
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« Reply #11 on: May 22, 2014, 08:53:15 AM »

And yet so adoring of those who broke the rules - so long as they did it many years ago.

Comments for a contemporary performer who takes a few liberties: "This is not how X composer would have liked it, he didn't write a ritardando there for a reason. He's rolling in his grave.
Or too emotional.
Blahblah.
"

Comments for players like, Fanny Bloomfield: "Oh my gosh! So this is how the romantic era was like! What can't pianists play like this today? Sad"

I have no doubt that if someone posted a horowitz recording without indicating that it was him it'd be scrutinized. Being a concert pianist must be stressful.
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theholygideons
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« Reply #12 on: May 22, 2014, 12:14:00 PM »

Steven Lin that son of a gun. He better win this, i'm betting my savings on this guy.
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schumaniac
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« Reply #13 on: May 23, 2014, 02:30:19 AM »

Steven Lin that son of a gun. He better win this, i'm betting my savings on this guy.
I agree dude... but Marcin Koziak is pretty good as well... and there's Colafelice whose age will impress the judges (also, he won the Gina Bachauer a while back)
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theholygideons
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« Reply #14 on: May 23, 2014, 05:43:13 AM »

I agree dude... but Marcin Koziak is pretty good as well... and there's Colafelice whose age will impress the judges (also, he won the Gina Bachauer a while back)

LINSANITY has shook up the world again! this time in piano playing circles.
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schumaniac
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« Reply #15 on: May 25, 2014, 03:15:34 AM »

LINSANITY has shook up the world again! this time in piano playing circles.
True...

It was disappointing though, that Naomi Kudo didn't make the finals! I loved her Haydn in the semifinals...
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schumaniac
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« Reply #16 on: May 26, 2014, 12:43:37 AM »

Wow... the discussion here, as I already said, is REALLY boring...

I have defected to PianoWorld... bye!

Meanwhile, I just want to say that I have converted to Linsanity-ism as well. I liked Steven Lin, but I wasn't super crazy about his playing. But after listening to his Beethoven 1...
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schumaniac
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« Reply #17 on: May 28, 2014, 05:39:17 AM »

Wow... the discussion here, as I already said, is REALLY boring...

I have defected to PianoWorld... bye!

Meanwhile, I just want to say that I have converted to Linsanity-ism as well. I liked Steven Lin, but I wasn't super crazy about his playing. But after listening to his Beethoven 1...
All right, I guess PianoStreet is still better for piano-performance related discussions, even if PianoWorld has a more active Rubinstein Comp. topic...

Ok guys the "C" part of the finals (the other, romantic concerto) is starting tomorrow.
I'm still a fan of Steven Lin, but I think Seong-jin Cho is more likely to win; not only was his Mozart K467 very colorful and involved (although some people may object to his rubato), but his chamber music performance had a lot more sensitivity and cooperation with the string performers that Lin's too.

Cho also has an advantage in that the other Mozart K467 player, Maria Mazo, was not as good  Grin
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theholygideons
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« Reply #18 on: May 28, 2014, 12:19:37 PM »

All right, I guess PianoStreet is still better for piano-performance related discussions, even if PianoWorld has a more active Rubinstein Comp. topic...

Ok guys the "C" part of the finals (the other, romantic concerto) is starting tomorrow.
I'm still a fan of Steven Lin, but I think Seong-jin Cho is more likely to win; not only was his Mozart K467 very colorful and involved (although some people may object to his rubato), but his chamber music performance had a lot more sensitivity and cooperation with the string performers that Lin's too.

Cho also has an advantage in that the other Mozart K467 player, Maria Mazo, was not as good  Grin
7 more hours to go! until steven lin plays Prok 2. My eyes will be on his performance of the cadenza. I'm surprised that he chose this concerto since it's quite a percussive sounding piece that won't allow him to display much of his beautiful, singing tone. I'm still hoping for it to be a spectacle though, the piece definitely ends with a bang. 
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schumaniac
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« Reply #19 on: May 29, 2014, 04:06:00 AM »

7 more hours to go! until steven lin plays Prok 2. My eyes will be on his performance of the cadenza. I'm surprised that he chose this concerto since it's quite a percussive sounding piece that won't allow him to display much of his beautiful, singing tone. I'm still hoping for it to be a spectacle though, the piece definitely ends with a bang. 
Steven Lin's Prok 2 is awesome! I thought Baryshevskyi might have an advantage in playing Prok2, (heavy Russian stuff) but nope... plus the Fazioli under his hands sounded bad (stick with  Steinway!). Leonardo Colafelice's Rach 3 was a mature performance but unfortunately full of wrong notes- and not just minor mistakes; there was one really big mess-up at around 2:21:00 in the video!
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theholygideons
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« Reply #20 on: May 29, 2014, 04:24:19 AM »

Steven Lin's Prok 2 is awesome! I thought Baryshevskyi might have an advantage in playing Prok2, (heavy Russian stuff) but nope... plus the Fazioli under his hands sounded bad (stick with  Steinway!). Leonardo Colafelice's Rach 3 was a mature performance but unfortunately full of wrong notes- and not just minor mistakes; there was one really big mess-up at around 2:21:00 in the video!
One thing I wasn't sure about in steven lin's performance of Prokofiev 2 was the slowing down at the main theme of the fourth movement with all the leaps. I'm not sure if it was intentional in making it sound ponderous and broadened. Also his cadenza was a bit on the slow side, making it harder for everything to stick together. He took all the tempi a bit slow, in my opinion.
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faulty_damper
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« Reply #21 on: May 29, 2014, 04:35:18 AM »

I just tuned in.  What were the best solo performances that I should listen to?  I was not impressed with that guy who played the Chopin Op.25 Etudes so nothing from him, please.
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theholygideons
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« Reply #22 on: May 29, 2014, 04:48:01 AM »

I just tuned in.  What were the best solo performances that I should listen to?  I was not impressed with that guy who played the Chopin Op.25 Etudes so nothing from him, please.
steven Lin's don juan (preliminary) + schumann sonata no.3 (round 2) 
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faulty_damper
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« Reply #23 on: May 29, 2014, 05:07:19 AM »

What "session" is that on the YT channel?  I'm going through the website and it's not lining up with the TY titles.

Edit:
NV. It's session 3.
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faulty_damper
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« Reply #24 on: May 29, 2014, 05:41:19 AM »

So I'm listening to Lin's Don Juan and when he gets to the lyrical parts, I find myself incredibly annoyed.  The melody is so flat; the charm is non-existent.  He also plays it too slowly so that the phrasing isn't very clear but all the pianistic nuances are which are there principally for decoration but it's competing with the melody.  Okay. I'm done listening to that.  I was getting too annoyed and irritated.  If I were in the audience, I would've gotten up and left.
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dima_ogorodnikov
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« Reply #25 on: May 29, 2014, 05:53:50 AM »

-
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theholygideons
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« Reply #26 on: May 29, 2014, 07:49:10 AM »

So I'm listening to Lin's Don Juan and when he gets to the lyrical parts, I find myself incredibly annoyed.  The melody is so flat; the charm is non-existent.  He also plays it too slowly so that the phrasing isn't very clear but all the pianistic nuances are which are there principally for decoration but it's competing with the melody.  Okay. I'm done listening to that.  I was getting too annoyed and irritated.  If I were in the audience, I would've gotten up and left.
I find that it's Steven Lin's phrasing and tone color that stands him out from the rest of the competitors. The lyrical parts are his strengths, what on earth are you talking about, would you prefer a robot instead, Mr faulty.
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j_menz
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« Reply #27 on: May 29, 2014, 12:05:24 PM »

So I'm listening to Lin's Don Juan and when he gets to the lyrical parts, I find myself incredibly annoyed. 

I suspect that shortens the odds of him winning somewhat.  Grin
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faulty_damper
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« Reply #28 on: May 29, 2014, 05:00:26 PM »

I suspect that shortens the odds of him winning somewhat.  Grin

And when was the last time the results of a competition had any real impact on the classical piano world?  You'd need a cold war for that. Tongue

I'm still quite amazed at what gets passed off as good musicianship.  Judges are still wowed by virtuosity.  This is the reason why I don't pay any attention to piano competitions.  Boring.
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schumaniac
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« Reply #29 on: May 30, 2014, 01:04:15 AM »

You should listen to the session where Cho played the Liszt sonata. Semifinals I think. Oh, and Lin's Beethoven 1 is actually really good.
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schumaniac
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« Reply #30 on: May 30, 2014, 01:05:27 AM »

Oh and they posted the results which I 100% disagree with:

1st Baryshevskyi (!?!?)
2nd. Lin
3rd Cho

4-6 in no order- Osokins, Mazo, Colafelice.
There were also special prizes but I'm too lazy to find them.
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faulty_damper
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« Reply #31 on: May 30, 2014, 01:47:03 AM »

One issue I keep on hearing from a number of competitors is that the soft lyrical parts of loud-fast pieces are pretty bland.  The melody doesn't rise as it ascends and it doesn't soften as it descends - it sounds pretty flat and uninteresting.  Cho's rendition of the Liszt Sonata falls under this criticism.  Only the loud-fast parts are musically shaped and expressive.  But due to the extremes in dynamics, it feels on-off-on-off-on-off, like a light switch.  This prevents forward momentum from ever being achieved and, especially in this piece with its multiple contrasting themes and moods, forward moment is necessary to keep the piece unified.  I'm so bored listening to it because it's not communicating effectively. I don't want to hear piano playing, I just want to hear music-making.
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schumaniac
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« Reply #32 on: May 30, 2014, 03:20:06 AM »

One issue I keep on hearing from a number of competitors is that the soft lyrical parts of loud-fast pieces are pretty bland.  The melody doesn't rise as it ascends and it doesn't soften as it descends - it sounds pretty flat and uninteresting.  Cho's rendition of the Liszt Sonata falls under this criticism.  Only the loud-fast parts are musically shaped and expressive.  But due to the extremes in dynamics, it feels on-off-on-off-on-off, like a light switch.  This prevents forward momentum from ever being achieved and, especially in this piece with its multiple contrasting themes and moods, forward moment is necessary to keep the piece unified.  I'm so bored listening to it because it's not communicating effectively. I don't want to hear piano playing, I just want to hear music-making.
sigh... I don't know what to do. What's more faulty- the damper on your piano or your ears? (Ok, sorry about that...)
 
How about Leonardo Colafelice's semifinal recital? Mature playing for 18, although with a lot of wrong notes.

Or Cho's Brahms op. 25? The best chamber performance out of all 6 finalists to me... although that to you might mean all 6 were bad???

Ran Dank did not advance to the finals, but his Chopin in the semifinals was quite good?

Also, I liked Marcin Koziak who also did not advance to finals but has refreshing playing and programming?
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schumaniac
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« Reply #33 on: May 30, 2014, 03:21:58 AM »

I don't watch, I listen so I don't care for pianism.  My comments were accurate and is supported by scientific evidence.

I'll give the Liszt Sonata a listen.
oh and what did you think of Lin's beethoven 1?
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faulty_damper
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« Reply #34 on: May 30, 2014, 03:39:04 AM »

My ears are not faulty, they are extremely sensitive to all the minute nuanced details that no one seems bothered by but me.

oh and what did you think of Lin's beethoven 1?
I'll have to listen to it later.  Right now, I'm listening to one of the Japanese contestants play the Chopin 3rd sonata in State 2.  I'm pretty certain she didn't advance to the finals.
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theholygideons
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« Reply #35 on: May 30, 2014, 03:47:00 AM »

How did baryshevskyi come first!!! the cadenza of his prokofiev 2 was far too careful and unadventurous, I can't believe how slow he started that cadenza, just when i thought Steven Lin's was slow enough. I wouldn't care for a few missed notes, as long as it was for the benefit of the fire and drive of the piece.  
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faulty_damper
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« Reply #36 on: May 30, 2014, 04:03:08 AM »

I'm listening to Ran Dank's performance of the Chopin Mazurka's and I'm actually pretty impressed of the control over tone.  What did not impress me, and it sounded like mistakes, was the execution of the acciaccatura's.  And then he starts the Heroic Polonaise and his introduction was terrible.  It's so sloppy compared to the others.  Why is he sweating so much after playing a couple of Mazurkas? Tongue
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faulty_damper
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« Reply #37 on: May 30, 2014, 04:45:56 AM »

So Ran Dank's strength is lyrical melody; he hears them very well.  However, in loud things, he makes these obnoxious hiccups, hesitations that is best attributed to technical issues, getting his hands to the right place but not at the right time.  That's just annoying.  Otherwise, I imagine he placed well in the Chopin Competition, if he ever entered it.
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schumaniac
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« Reply #38 on: May 30, 2014, 04:56:54 AM »

My ears are not faulty, they are extremely sensitive to all the minute nuanced details that no one seems bothered by but me.
I'll have to listen to it later.  Right now, I'm listening to one of the Japanese contestants play the Chopin 3rd sonata in State 2.  I'm pretty certain she didn't advance to the finals.

Ooh, that's a tall order!
And yes one of the Japanese contestants was really good but didn't get into the finals. Her name was Naomi Kudo- did she also play the Haydn C major sonata? I kinda skipped through the semi final videos so I didn't hear her Chopin 3rd sonata. It must have been really good though.
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faulty_damper
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« Reply #39 on: May 30, 2014, 05:14:57 AM »

Ooh, that's a tall order!
And yes one of the Japanese contestants was really good but didn't get into the finals. Her name was Naomi Kudo- did she also play the Haydn C major sonata? I kinda skipped through the semi final videos so I didn't hear her Chopin 3rd sonata. It must have been really good though.


I said I was certain she (whomever it was) didn't advance to the finals based on hearing her Chopin 3rd, which was sloppy.  Issues with forward momentum (again, a very common issue amongst a lot of pianists) and technique (many missing notes.)

I'll have to listen to Kudo's recitals.
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lazyfingers
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« Reply #40 on: May 30, 2014, 06:21:33 AM »

Ooh, that's a tall order!
+100.
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lazyfingers
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« Reply #41 on: May 30, 2014, 06:24:11 AM »

My ears are not faulty, they are extremely sensitive to all the minute nuanced details that no one seems bothered by but me.
That, my fine feathered friend.... is best explained because nobody has your ears. Everyone else's... I'm afraid to report ... are ..........normal.

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lazyfingers
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« Reply #42 on: May 30, 2014, 06:30:21 AM »

My ears are not faulty,
Prove it... please .....  

Just because you claim they aren't faulty, doesn't cut the ice with us.

Show us....

From the countless posts you have made so far, I could have sworn you were tone deaf, and haven't played the piano (jeezz... recommending someone who's only had 7/8 month's piano experience play Ligetti's Devil's staircase!). Seriously! ... I respect free speech and all but what you recommend is sheer lunacy!
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faulty_damper
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« Reply #43 on: May 30, 2014, 07:10:11 AM »

Prove it... please .....  

Just because you claim they aren't faulty, doesn't cut the ice with us.

Show us....

From the countless posts you have made so far, I could have sworn you were tone deaf, and haven't played the piano (jeezz... recommending someone who's only had 7/8 month's piano experience play Ligetti's Devil's staircase!). Seriously! ... I respect free speech and all but what you recommend is sheer lunacy!


Since you obviously have issues: you think loud+fast=difficult.  For this very reason alone, and I know many pianists who think exactly the same way (whom I dread discussing piano and music with), you do not play the piano well.  No one who plays the piano effortlessly would ever think that fast+loud=difficult.  For these pianists, and I am one of them, difficult=musically challenging/difficult to interpret.  Notice that there is no discussion of technique, just the best way to express the written notes in a manner that best conveys the musical ideas.  There are many works that fall under this difficulty and some of them are mentioned here.  If you read my comments about these performances, they all have the same fundamental musical issues: forward momentum, phrasing, etc.  These are very basic issues, and yet even at this level, it's still a problem.  Why? Because they can't get over their technique.  They are allowing their technique dictate their interpretation of the written music and it gets in the way of musical expression.

Anyway, I could go on, but I'll just ignore you from now on since you're just trolling.  If you have musical or technical issues (which I'm pretty certain you do), PM me and I'll help you out.
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lazyfingers
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« Reply #44 on: May 30, 2014, 08:01:56 AM »

Since you obviously have issues: you think loud+fast=difficult.  
Strawman... where have I said loud+fast = difficult?Huh

I said in respond to
Quote from: faulty_ears
My ears are not faulty
by saying....
Quote from: Me
Prove it!

Quote from: faulty_damper
blah blah...
The rest of your post is nonsense as usual.... which I will ignore.

Don't mischaracterise my statements! You may be in the habit of constructing strawmen to push down, but don't think I don't notice.

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lazyfingers
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« Reply #45 on: May 30, 2014, 08:11:58 AM »

For this very reason alone, and I know many pianists who think exactly the same way (whom I dread discussing piano and music with), you do not play the piano well.
You are on your own. Don't be shy!

You have absolutely no idea what I think! So, please do me the courtesy (which I know is beyond you)
not to try to put me in the goddammned box you have constructed.

My grandpa told me not to argue with someone who is mad because you get nowhere. I made the exception in your case because the internet is a free forum to express views and if I kept silence only those idiotic views of yours will influence the innocent. It is unfortunately incumbent on saner voices to shout down lunatic views such as you espouse, as Nils apparently is not willing to ban your ass for being stupid.

Quote
No one who plays the piano effortlessly would ever think that fast+loud=difficult.
Strawman. You are pushing over some edifice you have constructed. In the meanwhile you should consider emptying your earwax.


Quote from: faulty_damper
Anyway, I could go on, but I'll just ignore you from now on since you're just trolling.
I wish the world would ignore you. Often times I think I should just ignore you but in the interest of free speech and to counterbalance idiotic views like yours who think that a 7-8 month student should climb Ligetti's Devil's Staircase, i just pity those newbies who have innocently listened to your tripe.


Quote from: faulty_damper
If you have musical or technical issues (which I'm pretty certain you do), PM me and I'll help you out.
Lord help anyone who listens to you. Please.. the last person anyone should listen to is you.

My opinion stands... You are tone deaf. You have weird ideas of technique and you prey on those who don't know. And you are extremely rude all round, my fine feathered friend!

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schumaniac
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« Reply #46 on: May 31, 2014, 03:36:25 AM »

.
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swagmaster420x
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« Reply #47 on: May 31, 2014, 05:37:26 AM »

(whom I dread discussing piano and music with),

who* I dread discussing piano and music with
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faulty_damper
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« Reply #48 on: May 31, 2014, 05:42:46 AM »

With "whom".
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swagmaster420x
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« Reply #49 on: May 31, 2014, 05:44:59 AM »

With "whom".
naw
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