VIDEO: J.S. Bach Two Part Invention No. 1 in C Major

[glatour2496]

I recorded this a while ago and I want to update this as well as record some new pieces. I recorded it on a Kawai BL-71 in my home. Any suggestions are greatly appreciated! Constructive criticism is greatly appreciated too!

Personally, I think the tempo was wayyyy too fast. I think the trills could be better also, but we'll see in the new video.

[faulty_damper]

1) Actually, the character of the piece, joyfulness, requires a slightly faster tempo.  Play it slightly faster to express that character.

2) Articulation - legato on certain scale passages, not non-legato which is what you are doing throughout.

3) Dynamics - as the melody ascends, crescendo.  As it descends, decrescendo.  Also, balance of the two voices need to be terraced; left hand sometimes too loud, especially in the call and response section.

[glatour2496]

Okay thank you, I never thought about any of these. As for the balance of the two voices, how can I strengthen my right hand? I'm left handed which is probably cause for the left hand being too loud occasionally.

[faulty_damper]

Just make the left hand quieter and check for balance.

[glatour2496]

Thanks!

[kakeithewolf]

It's interesting that you found the tempo too fast. I personally thought it was a bit too slow.

[onwan]

It's interesting that you found the tempo too fast. I personally thought it was a bit too slow.

Bach's inventions are very special in terms of tempo. Most of them could be played in slower, moderate or fast tempo and they are not ruined by it.

[glatour2496]

Reading your comments I guess I'm a bit strange then haha. I like it a bit slower. But I'm fine with whatever tempo. Need to work on the dynamics though. Where do these crescendos and decrescendos come from? My music theory is very bad so if someone could enlighten me that'd be great. There are no markings other than slurs in my edition.

[faulty_damper]

Bach's inventions are very special in terms of tempo. Most of them could be played in slower, moderate or fast tempo and they are not ruined by it.

It was not the custom to notate tempi in many early music simply because they were written for other musicians who could immediately interpret them without needing such an aide.  (E.g. screenplay's do not have dynamic and tempi markings.  The actors can immediately interpret the words.) To play them at any tempo, fast or slow, and still sound correct is dubious because there is a character in each work that can only be expressed at a certain tempo.

[j_menz]

To play them at any tempo, fast or slow, and still sound correct is dubious because there is a character in each work that can only be expressed at a certain tempo.

That is truer of some pieces than others. Dance based movements have a certain implied range of tempi. Other pieces have a fairly strong implied range.  Yet others are really quite free and can work at quite different tempi. They will have different characters, naturally, depending on what tempo is chosen and other aspects of how they are played need to fit in with that, but to suggest that there is only one available solution in simply ridiculous.

[lazyfingers]

but to suggest that there is only one available solution in simply ridiculous.

Glenn Gould plays this much slower - but what does he know, right?

I'm actually amazed at claims that only someone's tempo is the right one when Bach never indicated must either have listened to Bach play that himself, or have some special insight that nobody else has.

@glatour2496 - well played but make sure you are not rushing it regardless of what tempo you choose. I heard bars 18? onwards a little rushed. Otherwise, good work.

[faulty_damper]

They will have different characters, naturally, depending on what tempo is chosen and other aspects of how they are played need to fit in with that, but to suggest that there is only one available solution in simply ridiculous.

To say that there is more than one tempo for a piece is ridiculous as it changes the character entirely to one that may not work for the written notes.  Care to cite an example?

Another key consideration for knowing the tempo of a piece is the key it was written in.  Certain keys had certain aural characteristics, which is nowadays all but lost due to equal temperament.  But these keys would have been understood to have a certain emotional expressiveness and it would have been interpreted to be played in a tempo that best expresses it.

[j_menz]

Care to cite an example?

The two Gould recordings of the Goldberg. That you could not think of that yourself does not surprise me.

[faulty_damper]

The two Gould recordings of the Goldberg. That you could not think of that yourself does not surprise me.

Of all of Bach's oevre, you chose to use Gould as an example.  I think you fail to understand the point of tempi.  His choices change the character of the variations quite a bit; it's incorrect to say that both recordings are equally valid at expressing the Goldberg's character.  In both recordings, he makes dubious errors in tempi choice. And in both recordings, he makes it sound like he's playing keyboard exercises.  He's not making music.

[j_menz]

Of all of Bach's oevre, you chose to use Gould as an example.  I think you fail to understand the point of tempi.  His choices change the character of the variations quite a bit; it's incorrect to say that both recordings are equally valid at expressing the Goldberg's character.  In both recordings, he makes dubious errors in tempi choice. And in both recordings, he makes it sound like he's playing keyboard exercises.  He's not making music.

What a bizarre little world you inhabit.

Changing tempo undoubtedly changes the character of a piece. The idea that a piece has only one character to express is where you are missing the point.

[faulty_damper]

What a bizarre little world you inhabit.

Changing tempo undoubtedly changes the character of a piece. The idea that a piece has only one character to express is where you are missing the point.

I think you forget that he makes the Goldberg, and many other or Bach's works, sound like keyboard finger exercises, not music.  If that's the way you like to hear this music, then that is your prerogative.

[j_menz]

I think you forget that he makes the Goldberg, and many other or Bach's works, sound like keyboard finger exercises, not music. 

Of course. He's famous for that. 

[glatour2496]

I think you forget that he makes the Goldberg, and many other or Bach's works, sound like keyboard finger exercises, not music.  If that's the way you like to hear this music, then that is your prerogative.

I think that's my piano teacher's mentality. She tells me that Bach is very precise, linear, and basically the qualities of exercises. She's made the Inventions I know my warm up pieces, along with some czerny school of velocity stuff, and then an actual exercise for articulation.

[lazyfingers]

I think that's my piano teacher's mentality. She tells me that Bach is very precise, linear, and basically the qualities of exercises. She's made the Inventions I know my warm up pieces, along with some czerny school of velocity stuff, and then an actual exercise for articulation.

Not without merit. Her views are conventional. There is more to Bach than meets the eye. Once you get past this stage perhaps you would consider the Well Tempered Clavier which some consider the "Old Testament" of piano technique. I wish someone had told me that 40 years ago. (Once you get past #1, #2, #7, etc which everybody plays at an early stage).

[onwan]

To say that there is more than one tempo for a piece is ridiculous as it changes the character entirely to one that may not work for the written notes.  Care to cite an example?

I've searched for tempo marking for the first invention.

Tempos I found are: Allegro, Allegro vivace, and metronome markings: 72-80, 96, 120, 138.

So which of the marking is the ONE, the correct one?

[gyzzzmo]

Many people start playing Bach differently when they get older. There's no 'one-way-to-play-it' (very few music is), but Bach can take it to extremes. Just try to understand the era the music was composed in (for example structure was important in Bach's time), be open to the many opinions and form a plausible version for yourself.

[glatour2496]

I think I'll play it around 70-75 BPM. I want a slightly fast "conservational" tempo.

[johnmar78]

good work mate, notes wise very good. I think there is a lacking in dynamic contrast and emotional feelings-in this particular playing. i would suggest put more thoughts into your playing and play at ever slower tempo. I liked your LH detached playing. For your next recording, save your emotional energy till last, and this will give you a best interpretation.

[glatour2496]

good work mate, notes wise very good. I think there is a lacking in dynamic contrast and emotional feelings-in this particular playing. i would suggest put more thoughts into your playing and play at ever slower tempo. I liked your LH detached playing. For your next recording, save your emotional energy till last, and this will give you a best interpretation.

Thanks! Probably going to record today if I have time, otherwise I'll record either tomorrow after lessons or on Monday since I have no school.

[j_menz]

I've searched for tempo marking for the first invention.

Tempos I found are: Allegro, Allegro vivace, and metronome markings: 72-80, 96, 120, 138.

So which of the marking is the ONE, the correct one?

By definition, the one "correct one" would be the one indicated by the composer. Bach didn't, so none of them are.

They are editorial "suggestions", which you can weigh on your own.