Chopin rhythm problem

[stillofthenight]

This is Chopin's Nocturne in C# minor Lento con gran expressione. I am having trouble understanding this group of 18 sixteenth notes against the 4 eighth notes.

It looks like 4 notes are played between the first and second eighth note, 5 between second and third eighth note, 4 between third and fourth , then finally 5 after the last eighth note until the next beat.

Is that how you play it? Just make sure those sequence order of notes sound evenly as possible between each eighth note? Of course it is played with great expression but just for analysis purposes.

It seems odd because if you were to play 4 notes between the first and second eighth note then that would really be four 32nd notes but that is not what is written.

[faulty_damper]

As a rule, whenever Chopin wrote out such embellishments, it is to be performed musically, not strictly metered.  In terms of practice, you should be practicing just the melody without the LH accompaniment.  Then practice the LH well enough that you can combine both, keeping the LH in strict time; i.e. don't slow the LH down to fit the notes in with the right.

[flashyfingers]

What you do is, notice at what tempo you play the arpeggiated left hand sections. This is the same tempo you will play the left hand here, as well. It is also ok to slow the left hand down here, too. Just make sure it is still in even 8th notes. So, after you set your left hand, make sure you can hear what the left hand is supposed to sound like, make sure you are listening for the even left hand 8th notes, keep them slurred, though. Then, perhaps try setting the metronome to 4 beats (remember, there are notes between the 4th and 5th beat, too. Where you can slow down on the 4th beat and squeeze in notes you have not managed to time right...), one beat for each of the 8th notes, at the tempo you will play your left hand 8th notes. To the metronome, play the right hand (the goal is to squeeze 18 notes in the same amount of time 4 8th notes would take to play. Kind of like tuplets in place of regular beat division and subdivision). I would say that the highest note in the right hand run and the 3rd 8th note in that second part of the bar would happen close to the same time...

yeah, then put your both hands together.

[stillofthenight]

So I am just suppose to play the 18 notes in "free time" while playing the eighths in time?

[flashyfingers]

So I am just suppose to play the 18 notes in "free time" while playing the eighths in time?

pretty much. Or as 18 over 4

[stillofthenight]

Hmm that seems much difficult.  My two hands and brain need to work mathematically together in some way so I can be able to play it. Hence, I would need to assign certain grouping of notes within each eighth note or else I would loose it. Maybe say 4 , 4 ,4 , 6

[flashyfingers]

Hmm that seems much difficult.  My two hands and brain need to work mathematically together in some way so I can be able to play it. Hence, I would need to assign certain grouping of notes within each eighth note or else I would loose it. Maybe say 4 , 4 ,4 , 6

What you do is, you play the 18 notes in the right, each note evenly, while you play the 4 notes in the left. Listen that the left hand falls against the 18 notes, by itself. It's just hand independence. one hand plays one rhythm while another plays the other. One hand does not derive the rhythm based on the other hand's rhythm. (I mean, you can, but no.) What you do with the notes is based on time. The left hand is timed the same as the rest of the piece. You have the length of the 4 notes in the left hand, and why not mark them as ONE beat. In this one beat, you squeeze those 18 notes. You will have to make sure this one beat is long enough (the 4 notes in the beat are slow enough, to give you enough time to play 18 notes in the same beat, with the right hand.) Most importantly, just listen to both your hands at the same time, but make sure you have control of both parts.