Melody Line in Beethoven's 'Moonlight' Sonata (Mvmt. 1)

[thomasmgill]

In the first movement of Beethoven's 'Moonlight' Sonata there are clearly three voices with the top being the melody for most of the movement.

However, in measure six, (circled in the attached picture), every single pianist I have heard plays this as if the melody line is G#-F#-G#-G#, where the F-sharp is one of the triplets in the lower right hand voice.

Every other time there is the same pattern of melody on top of triplets, the pianist plays it as if the triplets and dotted sixteenth are separate.

Why is this? I find it grating to hear but I am sure I am doing something wrong.

[j_menz]

Barenboim doesn't.

Nor should anyone.

[faulty_damper]

It's because the triplet is a different rhythm with the 16th and most pianists can't get over this minor issue.  What nearly all of them do is make an extended pause after that last triplet, which ultimately delays the downbeat of the next bar.  It's wrong.  Anyone who plays it like that should be shot, drawn, then quartered, and then have their fingers cut off.

[cabbynum]

  It's wrong.  Anyone who plays it like that should be shot, drawn, then quartered, and then have their fingers cut off.

You're gonna get some flack for that... Just sayin'

[j_menz]

You're gonna get some flack for that... Just sayin'

A little hyperbolic, but faulty's basically correct.

It doesn't relate to the relative volume of the notes, but the problem faulty identifies is caused by the same thing. A polyrhythm is two rhythms played at once. Too many people compound the two rhythms into one complex rhythm. It never really works, and is prone to the problems identified by both the OP and f_d.

[faulty_damper]

You're gonna get some flack for that... Just sayin'

It's a lot easier to cut off the fingers when the arms aren't still attached to the body.  Shooting them just makes cutting off the arms easier since they probably won't be screaming and flailing.  And drawing them is done just for fun.  And it makes cutting off the arms easier. 

[faulty_damper]

Barenboim doesn't.

Nor should anyone.

YES HE DOES!!! 

[j_menz]

YES HE DOES!!! 

All that shouting has apparently damaged your hearing. 

[faulty_damper]

All that shouting has apparently damaged your hearing. 

I guess you went deaf, too!

[j_menz]

I guess you went deaf, too!

He does some odd things with the duration of those semiquavers, and that creates some slight gaps in the triplet line, but the two lines are kept quite distinct throughout, and that F# never intrudes into the treble line and never approaches it in volume.

[faulty_damper]

I'm assuming that the OP made a mistake in stating that the F# is so loud as to be perceived as a voice of the motive, since I've never heard this ever before, which is why I made the remark about the different rhythms.  Barenboim did, indeed, alter the rhythm and delay the downbeat as a result.  My previous statement still stands.  By tomorrow morning, he will be fingerless, armless, and will be found next to horse manure.

[j_menz]

Barenboim did, indeed, alter the rhythm and delay the downbeat as a result.  My previous statement still stands.  By tomorrow morning, he will be fingerless, armless, and will be found next to horse manure.

I assume the name of this thread will automatically change to "Exhibit 'A'" in that case.

[stevensk]

G-Fsharp-G-G?    

I have always played     Gsharp- Gsharp-Gsharp.  G doesnt sounds nice

[superman1980]

G-Fsharp-G-G?    

I have always played     Gsharp- Gsharp-Gsharp.  G doesnt sounds nice

No F-sharp.

[stevensk]

No F-sharp.

No F-sharp in the melody and absolutely no G in measure six!

[thomasmgill]

You're right, no G's, only G sharps!

I've come to the conclusion that it is impossible, even for a Beethoven Maestro like Arrau or Gilels to play the F-sharp soft enough as to distinguish it from the melody line. I guess that F-sharp and G-sharp are too close in pitch.

[iansinclair]

All of which is why the Moonlight is a LOT harder than it looks...

[cabbynum]

I really do not like this sonata at all, but I can't wait to get I a piano and try out these few measures

[gore234]

If you guys don't like how Barenboim played it, can you guys post a video of someone who plays it the "right way."  The f sharp  to g sharp is a major second apart and how can someone say whether F sharp should be part of the melody or not. When I hear Barenboim play it, it sounds right to me. I understand what 4s against 3s sound like and I understand the timing of the notes and I guess it comes down to favoring someone's performance over someone else's.