Are there price effective digital pianos that allow well-tempered tuning?

[paperdesigner]

I have stumbled across the fascinating claim that our equal tempering was a quite recent innovation, and that as recently as the 19th century, we used a slightly less fudged tuning. I have been looking at upgrading my digital piano anyway (it's a DGX-630), and I was wondering if there were keyboards that either came with this kind of tuning, or would allow me to set the tuning manually without getting into five digits, price wise.

Given that my favourite music to play is generally romantic repertoire material, which is often set in comparatively "detuned" keys, I would love to try it.

[faulty_damper]

Yes! The music of Chopin sounds much better in the different tuning.  Check out the Kawai CA-series.

[hfmadopter]

It's something I never looked into with other brands when I was researching digital pianos going on two years ago now. But my Kawai MP6 that I ended up buying has several different tuning types available, two of which I have found to fit with classical piano very well. I switch back to equal for modern music though and also for my hymns collection I play . I would have to run through them quickly but I don't recall Well specifically among them. Sometimes you can download the manuals to various pianos online via PDF, it should be in there.

[outin]

I just bought a reasonably priced digital, Roland HP506, and it has several tuning options as well. Haven't tried them though. I just needed a substitute for a real piano, but this one does seems have a lot of options if I ever have time to research them further...

[hfmadopter]

I just bought a reasonably priced digital, Roland HP506, and it has several tuning options as well. Haven't tried them though. I just needed a substitute for a real piano, but this one does seems have a lot of options if I ever have time to research them further...

Nice ! How long have you had it for ?

So now we know that Kawai and Roland address temperament. I assume Yamaha must as well. We a Yamaha digital owner to chime in

[quantum]

There are a lot of software options available to play with temperament if your instrument has MIDI.  Doesn't look like the DGX-630 has MIDI unfortunately.

For my organ music I use jOrgan (open source, and free).  You can enter custom temperaments into a chart.

There is also this if you want to dig deep into temperaments:
https://www.huygens-fokker.org/scala/


My suggestion would be to look for a DP with an action you are satisfied with and which has a standard MIDI implementation, then consider software / sampled piano solution for playing with temperaments. 

[outin]

Nice ! How long have you had it for ?

Only since Thursday...Had to finally just make a decision and get one since I am away on the countryside with no suitable conditions for a real piano. I tried HP504 as well, but liked this one's touch better and got a good deal
And I must say this one does have a very good sound system, apart from being digital the sound is not bad at all...

[paperdesigner]

There are a lot of software options available to play with temperament if your instrument has MIDI.  Doesn't look like the DGX-630 has MIDI unfortunately.

For my organ music I use jOrgan (open source, and free).  You can enter custom temperaments into a chart.

There is also this if you want to dig deep into temperaments:
https://www.huygens-fokker.org/scala/


My suggestion would be to look for a DP with an action you are satisfied with and which has a standard MIDI implementation, then consider software / sampled piano solution for playing with temperaments. 

How would that work, exactly? I don't have much experience working with the MIDI aspects of digital pianos. Would I essentially be installing software onto the keyboard?

[hfmadopter]

Only since Thursday...Had to finally just make a decision and get one since I am away on the countryside with no suitable conditions for a real piano. I tried HP504 as well, but liked this one's touch better and got a good deal
And I must say this one does have a very good sound system, apart from being digital the sound is not bad at all...

When you get time dig into the manual and the menus. You can tweak out a lot of that digital tone. I did on my Kawai anyway. Three important adjustments to that end I found to be, note decay, room reverb, modulation. I did this one piano sound at a time, starting with Mellow Grand. I did a lot more than that too but I started there. My Kawai came with way too little of each and too much dymanics built in. I tweaked all that out to my liking.

Have fun, enjoy ! I love my digital piano.

[outin]

When you get time dig into the manual and the menus. You can tweak out a lot of that digital tone. I did on my Kawai anyway. Three important adjustments to that end I found to be, note decay, room reverb, modulation. I did this one piano sound at a time, starting with Mellow Grand. I did a lot more than that too but I started there. My Kawai came with way too little of each and too much dymanics built in. I tweaked all that out to my liking.

Yes, I had to do some changes right away too, it sounded pretty bad straight out of the box. Now I think it sounds ok.

I went through the manual, so I have an idea what it offers. This one has a lot of things added to make it more like a real piano, you can adjust the emulated damper resonance, string resonance, key off resonance, dynamic harmonic and cabinet resonance. I could even adjust the volume or tonal character of an individual key. And of course change the tuning and various different sounds. To try all the different combinations would take ages.

And then of course all the candies, what you can do with recording, separating the hands, splitting the keyboard, transposing, slowing down or speeding up the recorded parts... But I should practice my playing instead 

I'm just glad it's possible to hide all the buttons and display when playing, they seem to distract me quite a bit.

Have fun, enjoy ! I love my digital piano.

It's easier to play than my upright, but I kind of still miss the real thing. I don't think I can never really enjoy playing a digital as much, because it sounds sterile, a little dead. All the features are fun, but as someone still learning just to play, it's easy to lose focus.

Anyway, I will be leaving this one at the cabin at least until August-September when I return home on Friday. I'll be spending a few weekends here.

[hfmadopter]

Yes, I had to do some changes right away too, it sounded pretty bad straight out of the box. Now I think it sounds ok.

I went through the manual, so I have an idea what it offers. This one has a lot of things added to make it more like a real piano, you can adjust the emulated damper resonance, string resonance, key off resonance, dynamic harmonic and cabinet resonance. I could even adjust the volume or tonal character of an individual key. And of course change the tuning and various different sounds. To try all the different combinations would take ages.

And then of course all the candies, what you can do with recording, separating the hands, splitting the keyboard, transposing, slowing down or speeding up the recorded parts... But I should practice my playing instead 

I'm just glad it's possible to hide all the buttons and display when playing, they seem to distract me quite a bit.
 

It's easier to play than my upright, but I kind of still miss the real thing. I don't think I can never really enjoy playing a digital as much, because it sounds sterile, a little dead. All the features are fun, but as someone still learning just to play, it's easy to lose focus.

Anyway, I will be leaving this one at the cabin at least until August-September when I return home on Friday. I'll be spending a few weekends here.

Yes mine has most of those adjustments as well. I found that I had to adjust the dampers in the damper setting a bit more loose ( each note is too isolated from the factory). Modulation too, those items helped with the sterility. Modulation takes away some of the cleanness of the harmonics and makes the strings resonate and sound more realistic. Same with chorus backgrounds etc. Modulation can be overdone though, it just needs a small amount.

Time consuming, it took me over a year to come to a piano sound I really like, perhaps 85- 90% of a real grand. In the headphones it's closest.

[outin]

Modulation too, those items helped with the sterility. Modulation takes away some of the cleanness of the harmonics and makes the strings resonate and sound more realistic. Same with chorus backgrounds etc. Modulation can be overdone though, it just needs a small amount.

What exactly do you mean by modulation here?

[hfmadopter]

What exactly do you mean by modulation here?

Modulation control. On mine there is a wheel and you can set modulation on the fly so to speak. First it has to be turned on in the menu though. I don't know if yours has that but maybe not in a wheel if it does, where it is not a stage piano. Anyway, it's an ever increasing waver of vibration in the tone as you increase the intensity. It really helps the harmonics get slightly out of sync ( a bit less pure, more realistic if set correctly) and added to things like stringed instruments or even choir voice backgrounds it adds life instead of that sterile pure sound. Those sounds can take considerable more modulation than piano but a low setting works great on the piano sounds too. Cranked all the way up you end up with a whacked out wavering of the sound. If you listen to a real piano harmonize it isn't pure, the harmonics waver because the strings are vibrating.

[quantum]

How would that work, exactly? I don't have much experience working with the MIDI aspects of digital pianos. Would I essentially be installing software onto the keyboard?

You install software into your computer.  MIDI is a standard that allows electronic instruments to communicate performance data (note on, note off, note velocity, etc.).  MIDI does not carry any audio data. 

Basically you play on your DP, but instead of using its internal sounds you send MIDI data to your computer.  From there your computer can work with that performance data and you can do many things with it including changing temperaments.  You would listen to your playing through generated/sampled sounds from your computer (you mute the sound on your DP).  Of course all of this can be done in real time. 

There are also some excellent sampled pianos available.  You would similarly run the software on your computer. 

Another good reason for getting a DP with MIDI is notation software.  It is very quick and efficient to use a DP for note entry in Finale, Sibelius, or similar software.

[outin]

Modulation control. On mine there is a wheel and you can set modulation on the fly so to speak. First it has to be turned on in the menu though. I don't know if yours has that but maybe not in a wheel if it does, where it is not a stage piano. Anyway, it's an ever increasing waver of vibration in the tone as you increase the intensity. It really helps the harmonics get slightly out of sync ( a bit less pure, more realistic if set correctly) and added to things like stringed instruments or even choir voice backgrounds it adds life instead of that sterile pure sound. Those sounds can take considerable more modulation than piano but a low setting works great on the piano sounds too. Cranked all the way up you end up with a whacked out wavering of the sound. If you listen to a real piano harmonize it isn't pure, the harmonics waver because the strings are vibrating.

There's no such option on my piano, but I assume some of the settings would have a bit of a similar affect.

I am still going to get the grand though, so probably won't spend too much time trying to make the digital sound like one. I am trying to reduce playing with headphones anyway, don't want to ruin my hearing...My eyes are already bad, so it's good to have at least one sense working properly

[hfmadopter]

There's no such option on my piano, but I assume some of the settings would have a bit of a similar affect.

I am still going to get the grand though, so probably won't spend too much time trying to make the digital sound like one. I am trying to reduce playing with headphones anyway, don't want to ruin my hearing...My eyes are already bad, so it's good to have at least one sense working properly

Not the end of the world for sure if yours doesn't have modulation control, it sounds as though it has plenty of other features.  And at that some that mine doesn't have.

My ears aren't so great, years of industrial damage and also in a time long gone now race cars with no mufflers have left them less than perfect. But I find my studio monitors to bother my ears more than the headphones do.

Your grand is a long time coming, it's worth the wait !!