Action and response of pianos

[piano6888]

Hey everyone, I have played on many pianos throughout my years as a pianist, and I generally prefer lighter actions as most of my repertoire demands quick runs and responses.  In addition to this, I have also known the surface of the keys matter (especially those that are slippery, waxy like feeling), the response (especially when playing quickly in succession, e.g. tremolos,  double chords, passages, trills, ornaments, etc.), and the dynamic range (I would like to go from pianissississmo to fortissississmo).

There has been a few topics regarding actions (many years ago) and I can really relate to those people's miseries.  While it sucks that there was little to nothing that could be done other than adapting, I still find it unjust to evaluate a pianist's "true" ability if they had different pianos (some worse some better).  This is the thread I was referring to:
https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php?topic=21855.0

If you dont find it comfortable enough to play that piece on that piano, then play another one. You'll feel like crap if you played it badly and if you start complaining about the piano afterwards, people will think youre a cheap and bad piano-player because youre blaming the piano.

(Ugh so disgusted by that statement, but of course that's just how the harsh critics would be?  )

And the other unfortunate pianist at the castle hall (it could easily have been me!  Or anyone for the matter!)
https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php?topic=30648.0
(I would be traumatized for a good bit of life if I were he, but that's just me.)

[hfmadopter]

Hey everyone, I have played on many pianos throughout my years as a pianist, and I generally prefer lighter actions as most of my repertoire demands quick runs and responses. 

Really though it's all relative to a point ( obviously if it's super super heavy that's lousy). If you play on a heavier action all the time then light will throw you. Early on this happened to me. I weighted my grand to be close to my teachers Steinway in weight. Then played on a really light action piano and didn't make out so hot. In time you learn to transition but really I wouldn't  play any piano for a group like that in your quoted message without a practice session or two. Or you could do like Horowitz and have your own piano shipped to the location !! Owning a mid weight action piano is good, it's easy to transition up or down quickly and not a huge leap either way. At least for those who go out and play various pianos and venues and the like.

Incidentally, my teachers Steinway was an S model with quite heavy action, she had not trouble with crippled arthritic hands blasting out Bachs challenges on it. I think back it must have killed her to do that, never a complaint.

[piano6888]

How about the response of the keys and the dynamic range? I have experienced that sometimes trilling or doing runs on different pianos can vary quite a bit.  Some pianos I have been able to trill and run passages very fluidly and evenly, but other pianos are rather uneven as well as a smaller dynamic range (playing pp to mp to mf to ff there isn't as much variance).  The best piano that I have ever played on was when I was at a music school back in my high school years (11th and 12th grade), other than that I've been playing on some decent but never overly superior pianos.

I mean I could do without the best equipment when dealing with easier repertoire, but more technically demanding repertoire requires a specific piano to execute the piece to its fullest.
Here is what I mean:

(performer plays on a Steinway grand)

(different performer different piano (Kawai?) but close to the previous one in terms of technicality.)
(Those two are just examples of actions and dynamic range).

[iansinclair]

Bottom line?  Within rather broad ranges, one pretty well gets what one pays for in pianos.  There are a number for high-end brands (Estonia perhaps the least expensive of these; the top end Bosendorfers, Becksteins, and Steinways at the other end) which all vary (some heavier, some lighter) and the choice is a matter of personal preference -- but all terrifically responsive and wonderful to play.

There are some excellent mid to upper range pianos -- Kawai, Yamaha upper lines (some top end Yamahas are really in the upper end) which are also very fine instruments.

And then there are the rest...

[j_menz]

Becksteins

A cheap knock off of C. Bechstein?

@OP - tuning, regulation and general maintenance of pianos plays a big part, as does the acoustics of the hall and the suitability of the piano for the space. If you're judging off recordings, the recording equipment also must be factored in and can make a huge difference.

Across the upper range grands, it's pretty much entirely a matter of personal taste. I suspect in any case you are reading to much into the differences - the exact same piano in the exact same setting can sound quite different under different hands.

[hfmadopter]

How about the response of the keys and the dynamic range? I have experienced that sometimes trilling or doing runs on different pianos can vary quite a bit.  Some pianos I have been able to trill and run passages very fluidly and evenly, but other pianos are rather uneven as well as a smaller dynamic range (playing pp to mp to mf to ff there isn't as much variance).  The best piano that I have ever played on was when I was at a music school back in my high school years (11th and 12th grade), other than that I've been playing on some decent but never overly superior pianos.

I mean I could do without the best equipment when dealing with easier repertoire, but more technically demanding repertoire requires a specific piano to execute the piece to its fullest.
Here is what I mean:

(performer plays on a Steinway grand)

(different performer different piano (Kawai?) but close to the previous one in terms of technicality.)
(Those two are just examples of actions and dynamic range).

I enjoy if the down weight on the middle C range comes in under 60 grams but under 50 gets too light for me. Maybe that puts some perspective on my comment above about to a point. Naturally the rest of the keys fall where they may on a grand but it should move lighter evenly going up the scale and heavier evenly if going down the scale of the keyboard. You can keep uprights, I have never played one I really like. I'm sure they exist but I don't need to investigate that. I've played a couple that were pretty good but don't compare with the action of a grand nor ease of tuning them.

Dynamic range is  not just a matter of delicate action. Certainly touch counts but it has much to do with tuning and grade or quality of hammers and voicing them as well.

[justharmony]

I might add that in terms of touch, tone, and dynamic range are concerned, it is a fantastic experience to play a historic instrument (or replica) if you can.  I know, it's not practical for most to actually own such an instrument, but even listening to one live can alter one's perception of a piece.  Pianos once had much, much lighter actions (Viennese style pianos being the most light and responsive from what I understand), different tonal qualities, and dynamic abilities.  Playing Mozart, for example, on a Viennese action grand from that period is amazing and eye-opening.  It really makes you realize how different our pianos are today, and how ill-suited they can be to certain pieces or passages.  Moonlight sonata - that beautiful first movement - becomes an incredibly nuanced whispered poem on a piano from that era... truly truly amazing.

Just a thought or two...
JH

[poolede]

I've owned a Yamaha C3 for the past 14 years and always liked the sound and tone.  But it is very difficult (virtually impossible) to play very light, to trill gently or otherwise sound nuanced.  It never bothered me until I got a new piano teacher who is just amazed at how difficult he finds my piano to play certain pieces.  My skill level, despite years of play, is quite poor (I play only occasionally due to excessive travel in my job), but now I realize I have an instrument that limits me even more.  I'm told it really cannot be modified....

[hfmadopter]

  I'm told it really cannot be modified....

I'd be really surprised if nothing can be done about the action. You might not care for the price but I bet something can be done for it. A full regulation and voicing is the starting point, from there there is key weight to action replacement that can take place. The piano may not be worth that, this I do not know. But I bet something can be done !

[amytsuda]

I have the same problem with my Yamaha C5. The key action is cranky and heavy and I can not do things I can do on my teacher's Steinway C. My piano technician assures me that he can help fixing it and it's not because it's Yamaha or Steinway, just because of the age of hammers and how they were not maintained. I got this C5 8 months ago (for super good price), and the piano shop also recommended that key action is needing a fix. So I am going to give my keyboard to him later this month, and he'd work on it for several days. I will report if he could really fix it or not.

[xxhottie88xx]

When I was a penniless kid, I entered the local Steinway store and I looked at the price of a Boston I thought I would never be able to afford it this life. At that time my dream was to own a Pegasus by Schimmel. 10 years later I have played a lot of the pianos except the Pegasus >.< ... That includes Kawaii, Steinway all models, Yamahas, Bösendorfer, Fazioli, and Horowitz piano. I have to say I liked Horowitz's piano the best, not because it's the most expensive one, but because of its light action. star technicien franz mohr tuned the piano to be extremely light, I believe the weight is below 50 grams. So the action time is twice as fast, repetitive notes are extremely easy, and the point of sound is twice as easy to reach. But light action pianos with bright sound is not a good choice for French impressionists like debussy and ravel, it doesn't fit in that aesthetics of 2D representation of 3D space. You need a piano with a more "ferme" and humble sound.

I found Faziolis have very bright sound and is easy to control, however it's not my favorite. And I had lots of trouble practicing on Kawai today ... Pain -> anger -> depression