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Topic: What's this strange stuff?  (Read 2330 times)

Offline Daniel_piano

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What's this strange stuff?
on: November 28, 2004, 10:48:40 AM



What's the deal with all those tiny cutie notes not matching with the time signature?
Are they settuplets and decatuplets? Then why they didn't write the tuplets number above them?
If not what are they?

Daniel
"Sometimes I lie awake at night and ask "Why me?" Then a voice answers "Nothing personal, your name just happened to come up.""

Offline Tash

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Re: What's this strange stuff?
Reply #1 on: November 28, 2004, 10:52:48 AM
you know i had been wondering the same thing when i was doing an analysis of liszt's liebstraumn no3 last year and was like what the hell do i call this crazy bar of 50 million notes? and to this day i still don't know so now since it's been brought up again i want to know!
'J'aime presque autant les images que la musique' Debussy

Offline bernhard

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Re: What's this strange stuff?
Reply #2 on: November 28, 2004, 11:43:21 AM
They are called “fiorituras”, and they are a kind of ornament (literally: “Flourishes”).  You can find a similar one in the left hand of Chopin’s Etude in C#m op. 25 no. 7 bar 27, or in Chopin’s Nocturne in C#m (Op. Posth.), right hand, bars 58 – 59.

Basically a fioritura is a series of additional notes played against an steady accompaniment (as in the two example aboves), or against a steady beat (in the case of your score). The actual notation (tuplets, semiquavers, etc.) is not that important. Instead count the number of notes in the fioritura and distribute them as uniformly as possible amongst the beats they cover. You may also relax the tempo (that is slow down or accelerate). In fact in some case you may have to slow down the tempo.

Most embellishments cannot be notated precisely, so remember that you must be faithful to the composer’s intentions, not to the composer’s score, which is really just an approximation of his intentions. Usually the best bet is to listen to a superlative pianist playing the passages in question and see how they do it.

For instance, in the last bar of the score you sent, there are 50 notes of the fioritura against 3 beats. You must spread these 50 notes over the three beats. Here is a suggestion:

1.   Because the number of fioritura notes (50) does not divide evenly by the number of beats (3), simply partition the notes into similar size groups (50/3 = 16 +17 + 17).

2.   Pencil in a line connecting the first note of each partition to the beat it corresponds to.

3.   Play the passage to determine which group will have 16 notes and which will have 17 notes. Your ear and your hand will decide this matter.

4.   After you can play it rhythmically accurate (use a metronome if you have to), then relax the rhythm and by all means use as much rubato as you think necessary.

I hope this helps.

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side. (Hunter Thompson)

Offline Daniel_piano

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Re: What's this strange stuff?
Reply #3 on: November 28, 2004, 01:20:13 PM
They are called “fiorituras”, and they are a kind of ornament (literally: “Flourishes”).  You can find a similar one in the left hand of Chopin’s Etude in C#m op. 25 no. 7 bar 27, or in Chopin’s Nocturne in C#m (Op. Posth.), right hand, bars 58 – 59.

<snip>


Thanks a lot Berhard
Now, I need to know a innovative and creative way to destroy my theory book since fiorituras are not mentioned
It seems I can't find a good theory book that cover it all explaining it without useless verbosity and prolixity
My theory book had only two pages for syncopated rhythm, but such a complex argument would require at least 30 pages, but then those book that do have 30 pages about syncopated rhythm are all prolix

P.S.
I like the word fioritura :)
Now, "fioriitura" here means "blossoming of flowers"
and I kind of like the imagine of all those little notes blossoming from the big ones

Daniel
"Sometimes I lie awake at night and ask "Why me?" Then a voice answers "Nothing personal, your name just happened to come up.""

Offline Brian Healey

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Re: What's this strange stuff?
Reply #4 on: November 29, 2004, 03:22:32 PM
I'm not surprised that fiorituras are not mentioned in a theory book. They're a technique-related thing, really. Most theory books tend to focus on pure theory and analysis.

Offline allchopin

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Re: What's this strange stuff?
Reply #5 on: November 29, 2004, 04:54:28 PM
Side note: what piece is this?
A modern house without a flush toilet... uncanny.

Offline Daniel_piano

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Re: What's this strange stuff?
Reply #6 on: November 29, 2004, 05:43:15 PM
Side note: what piece is this?

Tchaikovsky Swan Lake
Act 2 Scene 13/5 Pas d'action. Andante - Andante non troppo

Daniel
"Sometimes I lie awake at night and ask "Why me?" Then a voice answers "Nothing personal, your name just happened to come up.""

Offline Daniel_piano

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Re: What's this strange stuff?
Reply #7 on: November 29, 2004, 05:45:46 PM
I'm not surprised that fiorituras are not mentioned in a theory book. They're a technique-related thing, really. Most theory books tend to focus on pure theory and analysis.

The point is that fioritura are ambellishments and my theory book -like any other theory book- has a whole chapter on ambellishment and ornamentation such as tremolo, mordente, gruppetto and so on, but no fioritura

Daniel
"Sometimes I lie awake at night and ask "Why me?" Then a voice answers "Nothing personal, your name just happened to come up.""
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