Dislike Schumann and Brahms?

[frederic]

Do any of you just can't stand these two composers' music? Well, that's me  :-/
Why is it that i adore the music of Chopin but just can't get into these composers even though they are exactly in the same period as Chopin and Liszt and the others?

Dunno, maybe its just me.  

[ludwig]

 Hi Frederic,

     Schumann's and Schubert's music belong to a different sort of romanticism to that of perhaps Chopin and Liszt etc... They are composers who celebrated the long and lyrical melodies and perhaps the more subtle qualities of romanticism, but they were fairly bold in other musical elements such as a sudden change in key or to an unconventional transposition. (They also wrote beautiful lieder). I suppose it just depends on your musical taste, but give their music another go, and listen to detail their musical qualities.
     Brahms in my opinion is a great composer, he wrote very good piano music, but also music for other instruments or combination of instruments. He's music is striking, sometimes odd in my opinion, and also very daring, triumphant and grand I think. Alot of unusual yet nice harmonic progressions and strongly rhythmic works sometimes. What can I say, I really like his work too. but hey, that's me, I'd say give them more of a go, and it'll grow on you even if it doesn't appeal to you at first, or perhaps try some non-piano works to listen to.
   

[willcowskitz]

I wouldn't say Chopin really even was a romantic, excluding some of his works maybe. His music reminds me of Mozart's therefore I'd say he was more into classicism.

I used to dislike Brahms a while before, then I heard some of his works like Hungarian Dances and Paganini Variations and I slowly got the grasp of his unique style.

Maybe its the same with every composer... Just have to try and see what they did and build an understanding that way.

[rachfan]

Hi Frederic,

I agree with you, most of Chopin is highly romantic as found in the Preludes, Nocturnes, Polonaises, Ballades, Sonatas, etc.  Liszt is also solidly romantic in his approach.  One need only play pieces like the Petrach Sonnets, Nocturnes, Etudes, or Sonatas and take in his novel harmonic modulations to reach that conclusion.  

Brahms is also clearly a Romantic, as is most readily apparent in his accessible Short Pieces.  His music often calls for a "burnished" sound.   Some of my own favorites that I have played are the Rhapsodies Op. 79 and 119, as well as the Intermezzi.  Look at Op. 76, No. 6; Op 116, No. 6; Op. 117, No. 2; Op. 118, No. 2.  I've greatly enjoyed playing those.  You might well like a few of the Caprices too.  I must admit, however, that his long sets of variations become drier and more "academic" at times.  The sonatas have some wonderful moments though.  So you might want to give most attention to his character pieces, at least at first.

Schumann is quite different.  During his lifetime, his sheet music mostly gathered dust, then his popularity increased thereafter.  Here again, I would first concentrate on the shorter character pieces.  You might want to check out the Novellette, Op. 21 No. 1, the Romance, Op. 28, No. 2, Intermezzo, Op. 4, No. 5, Arabesque, Op. 18 and Blumenstuke, Op. 19 for starters.  I've played them all and enjoyed these pieces.  Schumann is noted for rapid changes in mood, dotted rhythms, somewhat odd notation on occasion, etc.  But he had a wonderful lyric sense.  Most of his writing, as you know, falls into the several  longer cycles such as Kreisleriana, Carnival, Papillons, etc.  It takes a much larger time commitment to study those cycles, of course.    

The Romantic I enjoy the least is Mendelssohn.  Although I've played many of his Songs without Words, I often find his composing--some, not all-- to be more shallow than the other composers mentioned.  Some  of it even borders on the banal in my opinion, i.e. his cadences.  The other criticism I have is that he seemed to have a fetish about velocity, so much of his music is written in the tempo presto. I'm more of a lyrical pianist, but those who relish playing prestissimo probably think Mendelssohn is the greatest.  In his longer, fast pieces like the Caprices, Scherzi, and Fantasies, they mostly seem to blur together like momentary pinwheels firing off. Afterward, they don't seem very memorable to me somehow.  But it's probably the way they strike me, others may well differ on that.  

[tosca1]

Chopin wrote exquisitely for the piano and possibly no other composer before or since him has composed so perfectly for the instrument.
Personally, I love Brahms and Schumann too.  Much of Brahms' music has a ripe, autumnal quality  and while his music has darker,
heavier, hues than that of Chopin, I adore his romantic warmth.
Brahms had a musical intelligence of the highest order which combined a teutonic sense of form and  structure with  soulful, lyrical tenderness.  Possibly he is a composer who appeals to older pianists although his first first piano concerto has a youthful, defiant quality which may be attractive to younger players.

Schumann is in my opinion more accessible to young players than Brahms.  Schumann wrote specifically for young pianists in his Album for the Young. His Scenes of Childhood evoke vignettes from a child's imagination and these pieces are technically suitable for young, aspiring pianists.

Our musical tastes evolve as we play and explore the vast piano repertoire.  Possibly the enchantments of Brahms and Schumann will be  future treats for you, Frederic.

Best wishes,
Robert.

[dinosaurtales]

I have a similar problem with Brahms.  I like a lot of his symphonic stuff, concertos, etc, but his sonatas just seem like dullsville considering the work required to pull it off.  According to my piano teacher, this is because he wrote his big piano solo stuff when he was very young, and not as good at composing.  Later, as he got better and better, is when he wrote the symphonic music and chamber music etc.  

Don't know about Schumann.  I like a lot of his music.

[rachfan]

There is still another quirk about Brahms' writing for piano, notwithstanding the fact that he was a fine pianist.  Very often he writes figures in passagework that "come out of the octave".  These situations are startling when the pianist on first reading "runs out of fingers" and has to stop and ponder solutions.  (Recall the Rhapsody Op. 119 for instance.)  And even those on occasion can still be awkward.  Horowitz played no Brahms at all, saying in so many words that he and Brahms were on poor terms.  Despite his own virtuosity, obviously Horowitz had his own issues in performing that idiom.  Except for the Waltzes, I have always thought that Brahms' pieces appeal more to the more mature pianist.  

If I were to start something new by Brahms, I believe I would turn to the Four Ballades, Op. 10.  Although they're from the hand of the young Brahms (from his early 20s), they offer wonderful cantabile melodies, lush harmonies, subdued meditations, etc.  If well played, the set almost resembles a sonata (similar to the playing of Dohnanyi's four rhapsodies together).  Although Brahms has never been my favorite Romantic composer, I do enjoy playing many of his pieces and hope to learn more of them.