Chopin Nocturne No. 13 in c minor, Op. 48 No. 1

[pianoboy91]

At the end of the Chopin Nocturne No. 13 in c minor, Op. 48 No. 1 there is a very dramatic return of the first subject with an underlying torrent of triplets. When there are eighth-notes in the melody they are written on the first and last notes of the underlying triplet (as apposed to writing it three against two). Mostly everyone that I have heard, plays as it is written, not three against two.

See 4:15:

I have been told that it is a "Chopinism." In my opinion, it would not have been too difficult to write a quarter and an eighth in triplets if that was the rhythm that Chopin wanted. The only pianist that I have heard that plays the eighths two against three is Rubinstein:

See 4:23

So what do you think? "Chopinism" or two against three? or is there a third option...?

[amytsuda]

Your post triggered me to look up, because I remember it was written differently as three against two. Since I am not at home to see my score, I looked up on YouTube, and found these two videos:

=4m30s

=3m45s

If I am understanding your question correctly, I have a score in the second YouTube video above, which is different from the first one. You have the score written like the first one?

[pianoboy91]

Your post triggered me to look up, because I remember it was written differently as three against two. Since I am not at home to see my score, I looked up on YouTube, and found these two videos:

=4m30s

=3m45s

If I am understanding your question correctly, I have a score in the second YouTube video above, which is different from the first one. You have the score written like the first one?

Well, yes. However, if you look at either video, 9 measures after the doppio movimento begins (the measure in D-flat), you'll see that the eighth notes are written on the first and third eighths of the triplet. Listen to how Ashkenazy plays from that measure and following (13-15 especially) and compare that to Rubinstein.

[amytsuda]

  I do hear Rubinstein is doing a significant rubato in 13-14, but I have to admit my poor ears can't really quite specify exactly how he is playing! But I agree it's different. I was simply thinking everyone does rubato everywhere with Chopin freely, but I didn't realize there are things called Chopinism and how to approach it! I guess it's not random as we feel.

[amytsuda]

Wait I do hear it now. But it's not exactly three against two, what he is doing? It's almost three against five. So I guess it's Chopinism.

[pianoboy91]

  You are absolutely right about the rubato in Chopin! I still can't decide about this instance though, if he is using rubato or actually trying to play it two against three. You're right though, it's not exactly two against three...