What is the hardest part of chopin's fourth ballade?

[koalalove]

I know that one must have an extraordinary amount of musicality and maturity to really make this piece "pop". But what else make this piece so difficult? What parts are the most technically demanding? I'm beginning to learn it now but I'm not quite sure how to tackle it.

[pianoman1349]

I personally find this ballade easier to play, both musically and technically than the other ballades, as I can connect with the material much better (it also seems to be a lot less awkward than say the first ballade)

THe main difficulty of this ballade lies in the interpretation of the intro and the first presentation of the first subject.  In the intro, there has to be at least three distinct layers of tone colour and texture that are independently shaped, according to the hairpins marked in the score.  There can be a tendency to shape the intro as shorter phrases, without too much attention to the longer line.

The first theme (m8 - m38) can be difficult to play well, due to the repetition in the theme.  THere can be a tendency to have the music drag on endlessly, if the harmonic direction is not considered.  Remember that the ultimate destination of this section is not at m38, where the key change occurs, but at m57, where the cadence occurs.  Murray Perahia suggests that the material from m38 to m 44 is one big search to establish the b-flat centre that acts as the harmonic means to drive the music to the cadence in m57. 

Technically the next section is for me the hardest technical section in the work.  There has to be a sense of layers being added on as the phrase progresses ... driving the music forward to the end of the section, before another modulation occurs.  The hardest part of this section is the maintenance of the melody in the soprano voice, despite all of the figuration and movement in the lower voices.

From a sound/tone perspective, the climax of the ballade (variation on the second subject in d-flat) is very hard.  this is because, the sound has to literally soar and achieve a sonic high without any heaviness or harshness.  The imagery i use is an eagle flying across a great plains, from a low valley to the peak of a great mountain. 

THe coda is one of the more idiomatically written codas by chopin.  The trick to this coda is to treat each and every note as a melody, with the sustained notes taking over, where they exist.

BEst of luck

[mjames]

I personally find this ballade easier to play, both musically and technically than the other ballades, as I can connect with the material much better (it also seems to be a lot less awkward than say the first ballade)

THe main difficulty of this ballade lies in the interpretation of the intro and the first presentation of the first subject.  In the intro, there has to be at least three distinct layers of tone colour and texture that are independently shaped, according to the hairpins marked in the score.  There can be a tendency to shape the intro as shorter phrases, without too much attention to the longer line.

The first theme (m8 - m38) can be difficult to play well, due to the repetition in the theme.  THere can be a tendency to have the music drag on endlessly, if the harmonic direction is not considered.  Remember that the ultimate destination of this section is not at m38, where the key change occurs, but at m57, where the cadence occurs.  Murray Perahia suggests that the material from m38 to m 44 is one big search to establish the b-flat centre that acts as the harmonic means to drive the music to the cadence in m57. 

Technically the next section is for me the hardest technical section in the work.  There has to be a sense of layers being added on as the phrase progresses ... driving the music forward to the end of the section, before another modulation occurs.  The hardest part of this section is the maintenance of the melody in the soprano voice, despite all of the figuration and movement in the lower voices.

From a sound/tone perspective, the climax of the ballade (variation on the second subject in d-flat) is very hard.  this is because, the sound has to literally soar and achieve a sonic high without any heaviness or harshness.  The imagery i use is an eagle flying across a great plains, from a low valley to the peak of a great mountain. 

THe coda is one of the more idiomatically written codas by chopin.  The trick to this coda is to treat each and every note as a melody, with the sustained notes taking over, where they exist.

BEst of luck

I love this.

[koalalove]

I like that interpretation! Can you link me to a YouTube video of someone playing it this way? I originally liked Zimmerman's, but his is more fragmented in the first few pages I believe.

[quantum]

IMO one of the challenges of this ballade is to make the simple parts sound simple.  Due to the notable position of this piece within the canon, many musicians may micromanage the the music to the point where it becomes mechanical.  People may argue because master pianist Joe Schmoe says this, and author Jane Smith said that we must do all of this stuff.  Because this piece is an iconic masterpiece we have to... (and so on). 

I think the most important thing to do is listen first with your ears before you start to throw in external concepts.  If it sounds like an overabundance of detail is bogging the music down in places, one should reevaluate one's approach. 

Making the simple parts sound simple will help the more complex portions differentiate their own character.  It will allow you to maximize the gamut of intensities within the piece. 

[koalalove]

I definitely agree with your saying that simplicity in some parts is key. Too many pianists begin to excessively rubato and ritardando from just the first page and I feel that if you do, there is nowhere to go from there. My interpretation is that the first theme and second theme (first time) should have little to no rubato, then the second time it should have a little. Anyone else have thoughts?