Chopin and tempo

[fnork]

Hi,

One of my favourite pieces lately is Chopins 3rd ballade, it's always a nice piece to play. However, when I listen to various recordings of it, I hear that most pianists change tempo A LOT. Personally, I only change the tempo in a few places, and I think every pianist should note that Chopin doesn't write that the tempo should be changed. Here's my recent recording of the ballade (and some other pieces): www.angelfire.com/music6/pianostuff17

Here are my thoughts on it, which I posted in another thread:

I'm not sure if my performance is what I want it to be in some places. For instance, my piano teacher believes that holding a strict tempo (well, not entirely of course... but not changing the tempo as much as I do in some sections) is vital in these kinds of pieces. However, most pianists who record this ballade change tempo VERY much, and I don't like how they play it. Just a few hours ago, I heard the wierdest version ever of this ballade, go listen here: https://www.pianosociety.com/index.php?id=163
I really don't understand what this pianist is doing with the music. Everything sounds awful, and there's absolutely no feeling of the whole. My piano teacher told me once that Vlado Perlemuter (right spelling?), Ravels piano student, once held a masterclass here in Gothenburg and a pianist played Chopins 4th ballade. When he was finished, Vlado cried out: "You didn't play ONE ballade, you played a thousands of different ballades!". Of course, he meant that since the pianist changed tempo so often, it didn't sound like one piece. Similar to what the pianist here is doing with the 3rd ballade, I think.

Anyway, back to what I was saying. My teacher felt that I played some parts too fast, and said that if I should play them fast, I should also play the rest of the piece faster. Any thoughts on that?


I also wonder why such changes in tempo are accepted in Chopins music but not in, say, Beethovens. Also, didn't Chopin say something in the lines with that the pianists left hand should be completely steady and not rubato? Considering this, why are so many pianists just playing around with the music and play, as Vlado Perlemuter would say, not one piece but ten different?

/Martin

[Nordlys]

Hello Martin.

I listened to your recording. This is also a piece that I like very much. I think the issue about rubato in Chopin will always be argued about. We know quite a bit about how Chopin wanted his music played, from accounts written by his students, and there is also his (unfinished) piano method. Like you say, Chopin is known to have said that the left hand should hold a steady tempo, while the right hand (melody) is the singer, and should be more free. Whether this is possible in a literal way, I am not sure. Anyway, rubato is something which can not be explained fully in writing. When we read that Chopin wanted the trill to begin from above, it is unambigous. But rubato is explained by saying "much rubato, little rubato, or even tasteful rubato". This is all relative. Since we don't have any recordings of Chopin playing, we cannot know for sure.

About Beethoven: I am not sure if it correct either, that Beethoven should be played without rubato. There is a famous description of Beethoven playing (I don't remember the author), and it emphasize that Beethoven changed the tempo all the time according to the mood, in the same movement. But other accounts say other things.

For my taste, I find that you could use more rubato, be more plastic. Especially the place from bar 116 demand some freedom, I think, its almost impossible to play in time.  And some places could be more thrilling/intense by animating them more.  But, like you say is important, it has to be done without loosing the sense of the whole. Difficult.