Rhythm

[Liween]

  Can anyone kind to explain to me how do I do the rhythm counting ? I am able to count 1, 2 & 4 counts but I am lost when I am faced with quaver.

Sometimes I can count out loud without pressing the keys but somehow or rather after the second or third bar I will forget about counting and just play on Is there any problem with me and how to rectify ?

Another problem I faced was that my teacher told me that my wrist is too tense. He spotted this when I played the Ode De JOy and press the C major. Are there specific exercise that I can train to relax my wrist ? My teacher show it to me that I should not use the finger strength but rather just by relaxing my whole hand and fall on the keys. Can I know more about this please .

[richard w]

Can anyone kind to explain to me how do I do the rhythm counting ? I am able to count 1, 2 & 4 counts but I am lost when I am faced with quaver.

If you have already mastered how to count for semibreves, minims and crotchets, it shouldn't be difficult to add quavers to that list. The only complication is that for two quavers there is only one count. To get over this, you could simply add more counts! For each bar of 4 crotchet beats, simply count to 8. As long as your counting is even, and you realise that you will now have twice as many counts for all the other note values you should get the right rhythm.

However, you also need to get the right feel, and once you have learnt a piece and its rhythms by counting 8 (or 6 for 3/4 time, or 4 for 2/4 time) try it again but counting four. Try and see how the quavers fit 'in-between' the beats.

Another method for coping with quavers involves saying 'and' between beats. But, there is a trap that you should avoid. If you have a 4/4 bar with one crotchet, two quavers and two crotchets you would count 1   2 & 3   4    . Be careful not to turn this into five beats. It is difficult to explain but consider the difference between the following two lines.

correct: 1     2  &  3     4
wrong:   1     2      &     3      4

Hope that makes sense.

For long-term reliable success you need to indoctrinate your mind with the relationship between semibreves, minims, crotchets and quavers. When you are out walking, for instance, take each step as a crotchet beat. Think about how all the note values would fit into that beat. That's what I mean by indoctrinate! Piano playing goes to the shops with you!

Sometimes I can count out loud without pressing the keys but somehow or rather after the second or third bar I will forget about counting and just play on  Is there any problem with me and how to rectify ?

It isn't the numbers which are integral to the music, rather it is the rhythm. I'm probably right in saying most of the competent pianists on this site do not count beats when they play, but they will have an instinctive feel for the beat. If you have an instinctive feel for the beat, why bother counting? If you don't have, how will you be sure you have the right rhythm?

Another problem I faced was that my teacher told me that my wrist is too tense. He spotted this when I played the Ode De JOy and press the C major. Are there specific exercise that I can train to relax my wrist ? My teacher show it to me that I should not use the finger strength but rather just by relaxing my whole hand and fall on the keys. Can I know more about this please .

Sit at your piano and let your arms swing by your side. Make sure your shoulders are completely relaxed. If there were to be a wind your arms should sway like empty children's swings in a park. Keeping that relaxed feel and your arms exactly where they are, just move slowly some of your fingers. A useful exercise might be to allow your arms to swing (as if you were dead - but without the rigor mortis) yet twitch your fingers slightly. Your arms won't swing freely if twitching your fingers causes tension further up.

When you come to play the piano aim to retain that feeling of relaxation in your arms. Always be checking for tension in your arms, shoulders, neck and even your jaw.

[Daniel_piano]

It's really simple
Look at the time/signature and see what the value of each beat is
2/4 = 2 main beats whose value is 1/4

So the main beats get the whole count, while the half beats get the subdivisions
The whole count is like:
ONE - TWO - THREE
while the subdivided count is
one-and    two-and  three-and

You simply subdivided one beat in two half beats
So when you subdivided ONE in two half beats it becomes one-and

Of course if the whole beat value is 1/4 the subdivision will be a quaver
If the whole beat value is 1/8 the subdivisions will be a semiquaver
If the whole beat value is 1/16 the subdivision will be a desemiquaver

The you can have the subdivision of the first beat in two half, or also the subdivision of the first subdivision
So if the piece is 2/4 the first subdivisione of the main beat is in quavers while the subdivision of the subdivision if in semiquavers



Daniel

[xvimbi]

It's really simple
Look at the time/signature and see what the value of each beat is
2/4 = 2 main beat whose value is 1/4

To make it easier and more consistent, I would count the quarter notes as "one-and", not just "one".

It becomes trickier when dealing with smaller note values. I like the words "One-and-a", "Mis-sis-sip-pi" and "Hip-po-po-ta-mus" for those cases

[Daniel_piano]

To make it easier and more consistent, I would count the quarter notes as "one-and", not just "one".

It becomes trickier when dealing with smaller note values. I like the words "One-and-a", "Mis-sis-sip-pi" and "Hip-po-po-ta-mus" for those cases

When dealing with 16th or 32th note on a 2/4 or 4/4 piece I just say TA
It's counting anyway even if you don't say the number
So the piece is 2/4

1/4  +   1/4

TA        TA


1/8+1/8   +     1/4
 
TA - TA           TA


1/16+1/16+1/16+1/16    +  1/4
TA - TA - TA - TA             TA


1/32+1/32+1/32+1/32+1/32+1/32+1/32+1/32   +  1/4
TA - TA - TA - TA    -    TA - TA - TA - TA          TA

I never do this when there's someone in the room of course
It sounds like I'm completely insane or something

Daniel

[bernhard]

I myself do not count at all, and in general do not teach my students to count (although I will use a metronome in a limited way). However, sometimes only counting will do.

If so, rather than counting, I use the French system – which is what Daniel seems to be doing. It is brilliant. Here is how it goes:

Semibreve (whole note): Taa – aa – aa – aa
Minim (1/2 note): Taa - aa
Crochet (1/4 note): taa
Quavers (1/8 note): Ta-teh (2 quavers)
Semiquavers (1/16 note): Ta-fa-tee-feh (4 semiquavers)

So if you have a sequence of:
 
Whole – ½ - Ό -1/4 – ½ - 1/8 – 1/8 – 1/16 – 1/16 – 1/16 –1/16
Taa-aa-aa-aa /Taa-aa/ taa /taa / taa –aa/ ta/teh/ta/fa/teh/feh

(I suggest you write down the rhythm in proper notation and say the syllables and it will become very clear – it looks complicated, but it is not: it is absolutely brilliant).

Here are a few more cases:

1.   dotted crochet + quaver: Taa – a –teh
2.   four semiquavers: ta-fa-teh-feh
3.   Dotted quaver + semiquaver: ta – eh – feh
4.   2 semiquavers +quaver: ta-fa-teh
5.   Triplets (2 groups of 3 quaver triplets): ta-teh-ti  ta-teh-ti
6.   crochet+quaver+crochet+quaver (in 6/8): ta–eh ti   ta-eh ti
7.   2 dotted crochets: ta – eh –ih  ta-eh-ih
8.   Rests: semibreve – saa –aa –aa –aa
Minim: saa – aa – aa
Crochet: saa
Quaver: sa –seh

It takes only 5 – 10 minutes to get to grips with this, and if you do it systematically over a couple of days/weeks it will be completley ingrained. Well worth the investment.

Best wishes,
Bernhard.