When to get a teacher?

[molsen84]

Hi all, I am 29y old and I would like to learn to play piano. I would like to be at concert level in 10 years, but I have no desire to play publicly - I just want to be on that level if that is a realistic goal. I do other things in life which I am very good at, mostly because I'm determined and hard working so all skepticism aside, I firmly believe I can pull this off. I can afford to practice up to 3h every single day and a teacher up to 4x/month (for now as I'm single and don't have kids). I will be buying https://www.amazon.co.uk/Casio-CDP-120-Scaled-Contemporary-Digital/dp/B005N2DKDO/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1409616646&sr=8-1&keywords=88+key+piano which is affordable and offers everything I need in the beginning.

My question is when to start learning with a teacher? I've read that most self-learners start with Alfred books, but since I'm only interested in classical music I have learned that Artistry Alliance and Fundamental Keys are the best to start with. If it's possible I would like cut expenses in the beginning and start self-learning with a book or will I adopt bad habits that way and waste time and should really get a teacher straight away?

Second problem I have is how to find a good teacher, because not everybody can teach. Some people can play, others can teach to a certain level but all of them advertise. I have found a few on musicteachers.co.uk but I don't know how to pick. I'm located in Hertfordshire, UK so if anyone can suggest someone, that'd be great. Thanks for now.

[j_menz]

If it's possible I would like cut expenses in the beginning and start self-learning with a book or will I adopt bad habits that way and waste time and should really get a teacher straight away?

IMO, you'll save both time and money in the long run by starting with a teacher from day one.

As to picking one, choose one who is used to teaching classical (not someone who does it under sufferance and really prefers other styles). And speak to a few of them first - choose the one you're most comfortable with after discussing your aims and their teaching approach. 

[molsen84]

Thank you for your reply.

[quantum]

Consider teacher-student chemistry as well when choosing a teacher.  You may wish to ask for sample lessons from various teachers to see what teaching style suits you the most.  

When it comes to saving money, the best way to do this is to invest in education and skill rather than in gear.  As you acquire skill, the scope for acquiring better gear (instrument, books, recordings, videos, etc.) will become clearer, and you can get the gear that is most appropriate to your development without wasting money on stuff you don't need.

[pianoplayer51]

I have a very good teacher but I am lucky.  I just enrolled at my local music school and they told me that this is your teacher. 

[faa2010]

I agree with quantum, chemistry is important between a teacher and a student.

Because maybe the teacher is the most recommendable or a fine pianist or the student can be very eager and constant, but if there is not a good understanding or the learning methods are not adjusted to one's way of thinking, then teaching and learning will be difficult.

And also don't forget about the teachers who are very stubborn or impatient with their students.

Try with different teachers until you find the one with whom you can have a good interaction.

[molsen84]

Thanks everyone. So you think that the Casio I am looking at is not necessary? What do you recommend then?

[bronnestam]

I don't know enough about the Casio, but those I've tried have not been in my taste. It must feel as close to an acoustic as possible - you simply have to try them out and compare! My own personal preference are Yamaha Clavinovas, but that's me. You may like some other brand better.

When you want to learn how to play, I'd say that a digital is a very good choice as it will not be out of tune and can be combined with other equipment that will make the first attempts a bit more ... stimulating. BUT you also need to practice regularly on an acoustic in order to get the right feel, because there is a difference. However, you may not have to buy one the first thing you do. Perhaps you will find out that piano playing was not as fun you thought it would be, and then you have to get rid of the stuff again and then you will be grateful if you "only" have a digital ... But it should not be too difficult to find an acoustic somewhere to practice on.

Later on, when you are more experienced, you will know what you want.


Please reconsider your choice to play only classical music. I am a total Beethoven nerd but recently I have discovered that playing jazz/blues and make improvisations makes me a much better pianist in general. I mean, I become a better classical player if I also learn how to play blues or even to make my own compositions. (I am not pretending that I am good at this, in fact I suck, but I already feel that if I improve in this field, I also play my Beethoven better. Besides it is fun!)

Yes, you need a good teacher. In fact, you need several teachers. Everyone has their own individual style, and I'd say that you can learn a lot even from teachers you don't go well along with. Many different perspectives is always good! But the kind of teachers you should stay away from are those who disenchant you. Every good teacher should be able to encourage and inspire you.
But ... start with one ...
Also note that there are good resources on the net for "additional teachers", and you can also watch masterclasses etcetera on YouTube when you are not an absolute beginner anymore. This will not replace a real life teacher, but they are still good additional resources.

[pianist1976]

Hi all, I am 29y old and I would like to learn to play piano. I would like to be at concert level in 10 years, but I have no desire to play publicly - I just want to be on that level if that is a realistic goal.

Hi! I'm glad you don't put limits on yourself. In my humble opinion, one of the main reason why many people don't reach their goals is because they think they can't and therefore they self-sabotage themselves. The advice I would give you is being patient.

I will be buying https://www.amazon.co.uk/Casio-CDP-120-Scaled-Contemporary-Digital/dp/B005N2DKDO/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1409616646&sr=8-1&keywords=88+key+piano which is affordable and offers everything I need in the beginning.

I think this is a quite common mistake: thinking that because you are beginning, you can start on a lousy instrument and upgrade later. I have the opposite opinion: start with the best instrument you can afford. Ideally a grand piano. If this is not possible, a tall upright. Starting on a digital would be ok for amateurs who are not commited to attain a great level. In your case with such a high aim of being a professional level pianist, I would buy an acoustic piano. As a complement, digital pianos are great (for such things as silent practice, computer...) but IMHO nobody can develop tone playing only on a digital. If you cannot have an acoustic instrument, a digital may be not too bad but if you want to do something serious with piano, don't buy an entry level one which will not give you nor the best tone nor action nor speakers. I would look for Yamaha Avantgrand (with real action but quite expensive) or Kawai CA65/95, Roland HP 504/506/508 or the latest Clavinovas with wooden keys.

My question is when to start learning with a teacher? If it's possible I would like cut expenses in the beginning and start self-learning with a book or will I adopt bad habits that way and waste time and should really get a teacher straight away?

As the fellows said before, the best you can do is start from day 1 with a teacher. Indeed it's very probable you adquire bad habits if you teach yourself.

I've read that most self-learners start with Alfred books

Also most self-learners use to play quite bad with every kind of reading, rhythm errors, stiff and bad technique, bad tone...

Second problem I have is how to find a good teacher, because not everybody can teach. Some people can play, others can teach to a certain level but all of them advertise. I have found a few on musicteachers.co.uk but I don't know how to pick. I'm located in Hertfordshire, UK so if anyone can suggest someone, that'd be great. Thanks for now.

Is there a conservatory or school of music in your town? Ask for advice. You may ask to the advanced students right there who is the most regarded teacher there or if they know a knowledgeable private teacher.

[timothy42b]

I think you are at risk of making two mistakes.

One is to start without the teacher and add one later.  Bad Idea!  When you do get a teacher you'll waste time and money unlearning bad habits.  The good teacher is most important at the beginning; you can save money later.  Of course that assumes a good teacher; there are plenty out there that are worse than no teacher at all. 

The other, and this is just my personal opinion, is to want to get to a high standard of playing but not perform in public.  With rare exceptions this just doesn't seem to work.  I'm not sure why, though I have some theories.  I have no doubt that at your age you CAN meet your goal of playing concert repertoire in 10 years.  But with no intent to play for an audience, I do doubt that you WILL. 

[amytsuda]

Totally agree with everyone else about getting a good teacher from the day one.

Regarding Casio or other electronic pianos, you won't get to the level to play a concert repertoire on those (well, you can, depending on what we call "play"). They may be good at the beginning, but you'd need to upgrade to an acoustic piano, and eventually, a grand piano (maybe, used old one on a bargain) maybe even in 5 years, if you really practice 3 hours every day with a great teacher. So you'd want to purchase whatever device from a store that has an exchange / trade-in program or something like that. To be honest, you can develop bad habits playing on electronic pianos, even Clavinova. I can tell you from my personal experience. if you can afford an acoustic piano, you should go straight to it.

[bronnestam]

I don't agree. It is insane to go and buy a big, expensive grand etcetera the first thing you do. Sounds like a flashy idea for millionaires, and if you are a seasoned piano player with high ambitions you can never understaaaand how anyone can bother looking at a cheap digital when everyone knows that it is better with a concert grand ... blah blah.

OK. Like saying to someone who wants to learn how to drive and later on become a race-car driver that you should not start practicing on that rusty old Skoda - oh no, you have to get yourself a decent Ferrari to get the right sports car feeling right from the beginning, because there IS a difference. And then we start by finding the right pedals ...

Listen, I play on a digital (a good one) all the time. I went to England this summer and spent a week playing the piano and taking lessons, all day long and sometimes more than that. There were only acoustics. I practiced mostly on an upright but whenever I got the chance I tried the lovely Yamaha and Steinway D grands. Yes, a thrilling experience! I could have played all night on that Steinway, the sound and the feeling were just AWESOME.

And yes, the first few days I had to struggle a bit with the instruments, because they were different from my digital back home. But at the end of the week I had almost forgotten what I had at home, it was a completely natural thing to play on these acoustics.

Back home again, it took me some days to get "re-adapted" to my own digital again.  But after that short period, it was no problem anymore.

Conclusion? It is not THAT hard to change between pianos. Even a lousy amateur like me could do it in a fairly short time. Sometimes I practice on a terrible old grand where the two upper octaves are unplayable, keys are broken and dirty and the piano tuner paid his last visit in 1992 or something like that. But it is rather fun anyway.

So I repeat what I wrote here above: of course you should get yourself an acoustic after a while if you still feel enthusiasm about your plans, but wait until you have your own experience and your own preferences, then you don't need any advice from strangers in a stupid discussion board, you will know what you want.
Just stay out of the cheapest digitals, their action is too bad and playing on them is no fun, especially if you want to play classical music.

[pianist1976]

I don't agree. It is insane to go and buy a big, expensive grand etcetera the first thing you do. Sounds like a flashy idea for millionaires, and if you are a seasoned piano player with high ambitions you can never understaaaand how anyone can bother looking at a cheap digital when everyone knows that it is better with a concert grand ... blah blah.

OK. Like saying to someone who wants to learn how to drive and later on become a race-car driver that you should not start practicing on that rusty old Skoda - oh no, you have to get yourself a decent Ferrari to get the right sports car feeling right from the beginning, because there IS a difference. And then we start by finding the right pedals ...

I never said anything about starting on a concert grand (!!!). I guess you just exaggerated my words. I just said that in my opinion one must start on the best instrument available (I meant feasible or affordable). Yes, it can be a Steinway B or D for a millionaire or a Yamaha U1 or the like for a small budget; they are not that expensive on the second hand market and according to my experience, they are the real thing and they will give you a touch, tone, pedal, resonances and everything experience that no digital piano, not even the best ones, can give you yet. What I wouldn't recommend is a small upright such a B1 with that poor dynamic range, poor touch, etc. If an acoustic piano is not an option, then a digital piano may be ok. But starting of low end models can be frustrating. I've played the CDP-120 that the OP is thinking to buy and IMHO is a really uncomfortable "piano" to play.

In my humble opinion, learning on a lousy instrument may difficult the development of the pianist. Of course, the truly talented (and committed...) person will overcome every difficulty, even those imposed by starting on a sub-par instrument. But why must we suffer unnecessarily? A decent instrument is not that expensive and many shops offer paying by installments. If the person is committed and has a high aim, such as the OP has, then it may be worth expending a little more money. After all, if the OP is committed to be still playing in 10 years from now, why delaying the pleasure of learning on a decent instrument, why waiting x years to buy the real thing? If he quits, after all he can sell the piano.

[bronnestam]

Because noone in the world can be firmly commited to start from the beginning NOW and be on concert pianist level in 10 years. I'm not saying you cannot have such an intention, nor that it is impossible. But you can never make such a promise. No matter what the OP thinks today, he/she might have a total different opinion in one year from now, because it is like that with all new projects we start. We cannot know for sure. And it is perfectly OK to change your mind, it is not a "moral" issue or something like that.

Yes, I agree with you that a digital has to be real good, and the best ones are certainly not cheap. Personally I don't like the Casios at all, I have tried them. But you really have to TRY. What you need is an instrument that you truly enjoy to work with. After all, there are piano players out there who really love their Casios ...
So, I have a digital baby grand and it works for me - in the aspect that I really, really like to play it. I can practice for hours. I like the sound, the touch, the very look of it. Of course there will always be some Knowhow wrinkling his nose at such and instrument and say some dry words about it not being the real thing. (Yeah, I have met them.) So, perhaps not, but people who hear me play (on acoustic pianos) don't seem to question that I know how to play the piano. Even if I am just an amateur. So when I say that you can learn to play on a digital and enjoy the process too, it is not my GUESS or my BELIEF, it is something I KNOW from own experience.

Where I live, in Sweden, you can get an upright (although not the best kinds of uprights, maybe) practically for free. Thats is, if you arrange with the move. And pay a piano tuner to get it in decent shape. And if you have a tolerant family, neighbours etcetera. That is why owners of these pianos often are quite desperate in their attempts to get rid of them ... And that is why an absolute beginner should be a bit patient. Digitals are easier to move in, and to move out, and to sell. And they don't need maintenance, tuning and so on.

So, highest priority is to get a good teacher and a decent piano for daily practice. I say decent, not "anything with black and white keys". Then you can start thinking of the next step: either you upgrade to an even better instrument OR you arrange that you get access to such an instrument OR you decide that this was not a good idea after all and focus on other interests. But again, getting rid of an acoustic can be a rather complicated issue, and don't you think you need some experience in order to find an acoustic that you really like?

[j_menz]

Thanks everyone. So you think that the Casio I am looking at is not necessary? What do you recommend then?

The Casio is fine for starters. There's a lot of snobbery out there about various piano types, but it will be quite some time before it makes any difference you will be able to tell. It won't give you bad habits.

There will come a time, should you stick with piano, when you feel the need to move on. Do so then.

[brogers70]

The Casio is fine for starters. There's a lot of snobbery out there about various piano types, but it will be quite some time before it makes any difference you will be able to tell. It won't give you bad habits.

There will come a time, should you stick with piano, when you feel the need to move on. Do so then.

I second that. I started at 40 without a teacher (mistake) and with a digital. Later I got a good teacher and eventually a grand piano. I had plenty of bad habits from starting without a teacher, but none of the bad habits were related to having learned on a digital. And when I switched to a nice grand piano after 10 years on the digital, it only took a few weeks to get used to it. I also think that people who love acoustic pianos underestimate how much you can learn about tone on a digital. I had lousy tone at first, and my teacher could make the tone on my digital sound far better than I could. After almost 20 years I'm at a point where I think it would be something of a hindrance to go back to a digital, but at the beginning, don't worry about it.