Is it possible to practice 4-6 hours, every day?

[flashyfingers]

Hello! I am wondering, if it is possible to practice 4 to 6, possibly 8 hours each day, or if you would recommend something different? Last semester I was practicing 6 to 8 hours each day, 4 hours on a light day. I hardly ever took a break, and when I did-it was only a day's worth.


This semester, I find myself practicing in 2+ hour increments, 4 to 5 hours each day ONLY. Sometimes I only do 2 hours on my day off from piano. (But I also try to compose every day, now.)

What do I do, if I practiced all my repertoire, and it took less than 4 hours? And, I accomplished my objectives and saw improvement.

Is it that different amounts of practice are good for different people? Is a happy medium the goal? Where you aim for accomplishment and satisfaction, but also need to keep your brain happy and your hands healthy, so stop practice at it's peak, and pick up from there on your next practice?

How do you do that, at 6 hours? I would like that to be my norm. I need to get back to that, but without overworking my hands this time.


Just a few rambles..


Thanks!

[m1469]

Hello! I am wondering, if it is possible to practice 4 to 6, possibly 8 hours each day, or if you would recommend something different?

Sure, to both parts of that question!  

What do I do, if I practiced all my repertoire, and it took less than 4 hours? And, I accomplished my objectives and saw improvement.

Add something more, or stop there for the day.

It is indeed pretty personal, though there are guidelines - but, ultimately, I believe guidelines should generally help to serve as a spring board for an individual to find out what really works for them and what doesn't.  

When I first started lessons in the Fall of 2008, I needed as many hours in the day as I could possibly manage.  Not just so I could have my hands on the piano that whole time, but so that my specific mentality felt the freedom of having "all the time in the world" to explore and explore some more with all gates open.  I was really still very much figuring out, in a conscious way, just how things work!

The idea though, for me, was to always find the most efficient ways possible to achieve my goals - and I was still figuring out how to even set goals for practice.  If I reached a point of feeling like I wasn't actually utilizing that time, I went towards limiting my time in order to improve focus, and I've found that a balance between times of limiting and times of having no time-restraints except for my body, is nice.



 

[flashyfingers]

@m1469

Good post!

I happen to agree. It was my first year as a music student, last year. You could say I was figuring things out, trying to find my place in the studio, figuring out that Bach is my favorite composer, etc. It was a crazy year.

I am glad to be a little wiser these days. (A little, not a lot! lol)

[goldentone]

I would proceed wisely with caution after 5 hours of practice a day, as purely physical practice.  I don't know what the threshold of detriment is, but what you can do is up your practice a half-hour and watch how your hands respond in a week's time or so, and go from there.  Violinist Joshua Bell only practices an hour or two a day unless he has to learn something fast.  He said he learned to make his practice time more efficient.  I would increment and tweak accordingly until you reach your optimal hours.

I think of two controlling factors in becoming a performer as you judge your practicing requirement: Technique and repertoire.  Your technique must be adequate, or in other words, great; and you need enough repertoire in order to maintain a career. Technique is just a vehicle to express your vision of the music.  The advent of the competitions in modern times has, in each successive decade, sucked more originality, expression, and interpretation than the previous decade, to the point now where we are hearing pianists that, if heard one after the other, cannot be distinguished despite their famous names. There are pianists here on Piano Street that surpass the competition medalists in this paramount attribute of artistry.

[louispodesta]

Hello! I am wondering, if it is possible to practice 4 to 6, possibly 8 hours each day, or if you would recommend something different? Last semester I was practicing 6 to 8 hours each day, 4 hours on a light day. I hardly ever took a break, and when I did-it was only a day's worth.


This semester, I find myself practicing in 2+ hour increments, 4 to 5 hours each day ONLY. Sometimes I only do 2 hours on my day off from piano. (But I also try to compose every day, now.)

What do I do, if I practiced all my repertoire, and it took less than 4 hours? And, I accomplished my objectives and saw improvement.

Is it that different amounts of practice are good for different people? Is a happy medium the goal? Where you aim for accomplishment and satisfaction, but also need to keep your brain happy and your hands healthy, so stop practice at it's peak, and pick up from there on your next practice?

How do you do that, at 6 hours? I would like that to be my norm. I need to get back to that, but without overworking my hands this time.


Just a few rambles..


Thanks!

First, (and I do not need garbage feedback on this from the TROLLER/EXPERT), a late student of Rachmaninoff claimed that no one could concentrate for more than two hours at a time.  Also, when everyone starts out as a serious piano student, they hear all of the stories of how this or that great pianist practiced 48 hours a day.

Hey, that is not possible.  Hey, neither was the story about them  practicing all day long.

So, my first recommendation is that you consult a widely recommended book, (not by the TROLLER/ EXPERT), by Thomas Mark, entitled "What Every Pianist Needs To Know About The Body."  And, it does not make any mention of how many hours one should practice a day.

Second, in order to develop as an artist, you have to also develop as person.  You cannot do that locked in a practice room.

The aforementioned student of Rachmaninoff used to urge his students to get out into the real world and experience it.  He did so because it would be reflected in their music.

He, and Rachmaninoff, borrowed this teaching philosophy of piano practice from a composer pianist of the 19th century who used to tell his students to practice no more than two hours a day.  He lived in Paris, and his first name was Frederic!  You may have heard of him.

[outin]

figuring out that Bach is my favorite composer,

OT, but how does Ludwig feel about playing the second fiddle?

[j_menz]

OT, but how does Ludwig feel about playing the second fiddle?

Since he started a a violist, he'd probably regard it as a promotion.

[outin]

Since he started a a violist,

Is that better than b b violist?

[j_menz]

Is that better than b b violist?

More a stutter at the improbability, given the esteem in which violists are held amongst their orchestral peers.

[dima_76557]

Is it that different amounts of practice are good for different people? Is a happy medium the goal?

Whatever the armchair theorists say, the goal is to get at least the work done that was assigned to you, so you do what's necessary for as long as necessary. Considering the work(over)load in most renowned institutions (they give you 3-4 new works to learn each time for next time and those should be more or less performance-ready yesterday), an optimum would be an average of 4-5 hours a day of real quality practice, spread over the day (my personal peak hours are early morning and late in the evening). From what I hear from others (both students and professionals), six hours a day seems to be the practical maximum because beyond that, you start getting diminishing returns anyway.

[louispodesta]

Whatever the armchair theorists say, the goal is to get at least the work done that was assigned to you, so you do what's necessary for as long as necessary. Considering the work(over)load in most renowned institutions (they give you 3-4 new works to learn each time for next time and those should be more or less performance-ready yesterday), an optimum would be an average of 4-5 hours a day of real quality practice, spread over the day (my personal peak hours are early morning and late in the evening). From what I hear from others (both students and professionals), six hours a day seems to be the practical maximum because beyond that, you start getting diminishing returns anyway.

Nyet!!

The world is littered with the remnants of pianists whose particular physiologies could not match up with some artificial standard of repertoire matriculation set for them by some conservatory.

Please explain to me the semblance of a normal life this person is supposed have while following your advice.  But, then again, you may have never had that experience.  I hope I am wrong.

I have lived your life of elongated practice, and it got me nowhere.  Once I understood my body through my coach, my practice routine distilled down to two hours in the morning, and then two hours in the afternoon.  This gives me an extra immense of time for a NORMAL LIFE!!!

The goal is not to get done what is assigned to you, but, instead, to become an accomplished musician.  Sometimes the two are the same, unfortunately, these days, most of the time they are not!

[flashyfingers]

Whatever the armchair theorists say, the goal is to get at least the work done that was assigned to you, so you do what's necessary for as long as necessary. Considering the work(over)load in most renowned institutions (they give you 3-4 new works to learn each time for next time and those should be more or less performance-ready yesterday), an optimum would be an average of 4-5 hours a day of real quality practice, spread over the day (my personal peak hours are early morning and late in the evening). From what I hear from others (both students and professionals), six hours a day seems to be the practical maximum because beyond that, you start getting diminishing returns anyway.

Nice. I agree, I practice best in the mornings and in the evenings. Daytime is a little weird. Even my dogs don't like the middle of the day.

I am curious to know more about how you work with your assignments, Dima. And if you get 4 to 5 pieces per semester or each lesson :O

I am assigned a certain amount of work each semester. Everything else is extra curricular!

I am curious to know if y'all's professors practice 4 to 6 hours a day?


I found myself practicing 5 hours lately and I feel a little overworked. But then again. I was practicing technique for those 5 hours, basically. That can never be good!! If I was learning and memorizing, then I could go for hours without sweating quite as much.

[flashyfingers]

The goal is not to get done what is assigned to you, but, instead, to become an accomplished musician.  Sometimes the two are the same, unfortunately, these days, most of the time they are not!

I would like to think that the goal was to become an accomplished musician. Unfortunately, the easiest way to to do is to do what your teacher/prof tells you. You apprentice.

There are most likely many little things that factor into the morphing of an accomplished musician, however, the big one is getting done the work your prof assigns you.

 

[dima_76557]

I am curious to know more about how you work with your assignments, Dima.

This is not an X pieces for one semester thing. I may be mistaken, but it seems to me more like a deliberate drill to:

1) force you to get quality work done within certain very rigid time limits
2) show them (and yourself) that you really love your Art, show them that you respect them and that you are ready to work up to the quality they are expecting from you, and in general: that you are ready to make sacrifices to prove that this is your calling. You don't talk much; you simply do.

The first day (when the work is assigned), I do everything to "prime" the assigned repertoire. This means getting it fluent and comfortable everywhere. I do not stop until this is accomplished, however long it takes.

Reason: before I can enjoy my artistic tea, so to speak, I *have to* boil the water and I cannot afford to delay that process (=take the kettle off the stove a couple of times before the water boils), otherwise my artistic tea won't have enough time to "brew" within the set time limit (a week or so for very demanding works I may never have seen or heard in my life). This takes as long as it takes, but I have to do that the very first day to feel psychologically comfortable about my preparation.

When this is accomplished, I can shift back to lower gear for the rest of the week to work on what I think are the artistic points, but such that I don't ingrain a set "interpretation". On the contrary: I will have to be ready to react to any weird requirement on the spot within that repertoire, so automated "interpretations" pretty much work against you.

BUT...! I also have to:

1) prepare repertoire for ensemble playing
2) broaden my repertoire with stuff that may be expected some time in the future

so I have to sightread a lot, initially not one of my strongest skills. I have improved a lot, though, by deliberately putting my books upside down and read like that for fun. It helps you cope with fear, uncertainty and doubt.

P.S.: I guess I am just not talented enough for Mr. Podesta's 2x2-hours-a-day regimen because I am sure that if I follow that, I'll get flunked.

* * * * *

@ Mr. Podesta

I am not giving advice to the OP. Just telling her what some students have to go through to survive in a system they did not invent themselves. I suspect that the renowned Schools in the US require the same from their students.

[flashyfingers]

Yes, the university regimen is about the same. I am in an ensemble (more like an accompanist on call) and I am taking a sight-reading class. Plus, we have to perform in 2 performance class meetings and a studio recital.

I can agree that you should work on the repertoire that is assigned to you, plus the repertoire that will be expected of you in the future. That is pretty much how it goes. Thank you for elaborating on that.

As far as reading things upside down, I am rather obsessed with Bach, so I started making my way through all the preludes and fugues last year. Needless to say, more of the Bach I learnt was from book I, and now I am completely obsessed with book II. Book II is a complete terror, though. The preludes and fugues in book II are very difficult... (I am in no way saying I know all of Book I or II. It is more of a dream.)

How conversations always become about Bach? 

[keystroke3]

I think you can practice as long as you want as long as your still focusing, just make sure you're not hitting that point where you're getting sloppy.

I'd do the more brain-intensive stuff first (like learning new sections of songs) and save the easier stuff like drilling in a left hand pattern for later when you don't have as much energy.

[kevin69]

If you are playing for four to six hours a day, how much time do you spend studying repertoire away from the piano?

[maxyim]

Reading this thread makes me happy that I did not study piano and can instead enjoy it at my leisure...!  I look forward all day to come home to my piano and practice, what do you guys look forward to? 

[dima_76557]

If you are playing for four to six hours a day, how much time do you spend studying repertoire away from the piano?

I answered the OP's question concerning active practice sessions only, which does not automatically mean that I am moving my fingers/playing physically all that time. The session may include analysis, silent practice, critical listening to recordings, etc. Away from the instrument? I can safely say: music and especially piano playing keeps me busy without interruption somewhere in the back of my head unless something very interesting, pleasant, or shocking distracts my mind from it.

Reading this thread makes me happy that I did not study piano and can instead enjoy it at my leisure...!  I look forward all day to come home to my piano and practice, what do you guys look forward to?  

It's not as bad as it seems. Actually, I find what I do very rewarding in many ways. It's just like in any normal relationship or other serious commitment: it's not all excitement, and it often takes hard work to make it worthwhile.

[kevin69]

I answered the OP's question concerning active practice sessions only, which does not automatically mean that I am moving my fingers/playing physically all that time. The session may include analysis, silent practice, critical listening to recordings, etc.

I'd read the OP's question as time spent at the piano.
I agree that practice should not be limited to physically playing, but was interested in the different proportions of time taken up in physical playing, critical listening, analysis etc.

What exactly do you mean by silent practice?

[dima_76557]

What exactly do you mean by silent practice?

Say you want to practise lacing your shoes. You can imagine doing every single step of it without being involved physically. In the beginning, this is very difficult, but with practice, you can create a perfect string of events in your mind.

At the piano, if something feels awkward, I stop moving immediately and try to imagine how it could become more comfortable. This works most of the time but it has to be stuff that is not beyond what I can do physically at the instrument.

[flashyfingers]

I spend plenty of time practicing away from the piano, as well. In fact, rarely do I think about anything besides music and piano playing, and the pieces I am working on or the pieces I am trying to compose

[cwjalex]

man 4-6 hours?  i struggle to practice 45 minutes a day on a regular basis.

[bronnestam]

I believe there are millions and millions (and I have been one of them) of pianists all over the world who just automatically assume that "practice" means "keep your hands moving". Which means that if your hands are not moving you are NOT practicing, and if they are, then all is fine.

And then the mighty Saint of Moral steps in and says that if you work hard, you will be rewarded. 
OK, we think, I will work (that is, keep my hands moving) untill my arms fall off, and I will be THE BEST.

Because no pain, no gain, so those lazy creatures who sit in an armchair reading sheet music or are lying on their bed with closed eyes (sleeping, huh?) or just SIT there at their piano seemingly day-dreaming - they just cannot be working, right? They should not be rewarded. D*mn that person if he/she later on comes up with excellent results! Must be one of those bl**dy geniuses, right? So gifted that she does not have to work ...

OK, you know what I mean. This person is not working less, she is just working in another way, probably more effective too.

If you love to play 6 hours a day and you have the possibility to do it, and you don't get injuries - then go on, do it then. Just don't assume this will automatically make you a better pianist. 
 

[flashyfingers]

I believe there are millions and millions (and I have been one of them) of pianists all over the world who just automatically assume that "practice" means "keep your hands moving". Which means that if your hands are not moving you are NOT practicing, and if they are, then all is fine.

And then the mighty Saint of Moral steps in and says that if you work hard, you will be rewarded. 
OK, we think, I will work (that is, keep my hands moving) untill my arms fall off, and I will be THE BEST.

Because no pain, no gain, so those lazy creatures who sit in an armchair reading sheet music or are lying on their bed with closed eyes (sleeping, huh?) or just SIT there at their piano seemingly day-dreaming - they just cannot be working, right? They should not be rewarded. D*mn that person if he/she later on comes up with excellent results! Must be one of those bl**dy geniuses, right? So gifted that she does not have to work ...

OK, you know what I mean. This person is not working less, she is just working in another way, probably more effective too.

If you love to play 6 hours a day and you have the possibility to do it, and you don't get injuries - then go on, do it then. Just don't assume this will automatically make you a better pianist. 
 

I like this post! I would also say that a lot of practice is wasted on trying to accomplish something, rather than practicing analyzing the situation and taking control of it in your head, calculating each step, so that when you sit at the piano next, you in turn move more efficiently, and your practice is more reliable.

[andrytikh]

I practice no more than 2 hours daily. Indeed it is very personal.

[louispodesta]

I would like to think that the goal was to become an accomplished musician. Unfortunately, the easiest way to to do is to do what your teacher/prof tells you. You apprentice.

There are most likely many little things that factor into the morphing of an accomplished musician, however, the big one is getting done the work your prof assigns you.

 

You are obviously a person/pianist with a very good soul.  However, there are many who post here, (as well as those who view your posts), who recognize from your replies  the old adage:  I have been there, done that, and in the long run, it got me nowhere.

You are living a very exciting life.  However, in the long run, it has absolutely nothing to do with your long-term development as an artist.

If, as a philosopher, I said you have been (like so many tens of thousands before you), I would only be expressing an opinion in regards your "idol worship" of your teacher.   But, that is exactly the way you come across.

[j_menz]

If, as a philosopher, I said you have been (like so many tens of thousands before you), I would only be expressing an opinion in regards your "idol worship" of your teacher. 

If you said it as a philosopher, one would hope you'd have taken greater care with your syntax.

[flashyfingers]

Perhaps I do idolize my professor. He is a respectable pianist, a knowledgeable teacher and has great social skills. We need more people like this in the world.

[dima_76557]

your "idol worship" of your teacher.

"Idol worship"?!? Please read the "Code of conduct" for any renowned musical institution. Here is, for example, a quote from Curtis:

All students are on probation during their entire period of enrollment and may be officially withdrawn at any time for failure to maintain the required standard of work or the inability to engage in the basic required activities necessary to obtain an education.

They are not going to teach you how to play the instrument, so silly excuses for sloppy results are not accepted at that level. The "Basic requirement" for your main instrument is that you prepare what they assign within the set time limit and do that properly. How you do that is your own problem. Nobody forces you to work X hours, but you'd better be ready to deliver or you're history.

P.S.: Yes, this has nothing to do with becoming an artist. It has to do with being a craftsperson.

[keyofc]

If you have the time and focus to practice 6 hours a day - don't let anyone talk you out of it!

The most I can do is 4 hours a day.

It really helps to write your own plan.
How many pieces do you want to work on at one time?

I like to divide my repertoire by sections and work on specific sections
in each piece in one day and do not overwhelm myself by trying to get it all
at once.

Do you journal your progress, challenges, and your discoveries?
That's very helpful to read at a later date.

[flashyfingers]

I realized that I rarely practice more than 4 hours. I do sometimes practice all day, but I prefer to keep those days to a minimum.

I do track my progress in a journal.