The only exercise you'll ever need

[hardy_practice]

Adapted from Brahms 51 exercises no 15.

[j_menz]

It's gonna be one of those days. 

[perfect_pitch]

Sorry, but I'm with J_Menz on this one.

You really don't know what exercises are out there and what each purpose serves.

[hardy_practice]

Hey, thanks for your replies.  Dashing off to work.  Have you tried the exercise?  You may not be aware but the majority of your technique problems stem from a weak/unpracticed finger 4.

[j_menz]

Hey, thanks for your replies.  Dashing off to work.  Have you tried the exercise?  You may not be aware but the majority of your technique problems stem from a weak/unpracticed finger 4.

My fourth finger is actually neither weak, nor unpractised.

I'm rather tempted to give one or other of my third a little exercise though.

[outin]

My fourth finger is actually neither weak, nor unpractised.

I'm rather tempted to give one or other of my third a little exercise though.

You don't have a preferred third for that exercise?

[perfect_pitch]

Have you tried the exercise?  You may not be aware but the majority of your technique problems stem from a weak/unpracticed finger 4.

I've tried not only that exercise exactly as I own the Brahms Exercise book, but I've also played through the Hanon (haven't had the time to master it though) and the Czerny School of Velocity studies (a number of them).

You think that's the only exercise you need??? You are simply wrong.

[hardy_practice]

Maybe I should change the title to the only exercise I'll ever need?  Apart from facility at scales and arpeggios, if your technique is pretty free anyway it's only building up your fingers that's needed - but especially finger 4! 

[mjames]

alright, thanks

Now I know what I need for the nightwind sonata

[j_menz]

You don't have a preferred third for that exercise?

I use it to practice my ambidexterity. You wouldn't want to be caught out with your best hand otherwise occupied when you need it.

Maybe I should change the title to the only exercise I'll ever need? 

Maybe you should hold off until you can actually do the exercise before judging or making claims about its powers.

[hardy_practice]

Maybe you should hold off until you can actually do the exercise before judging or making claims about its powers.

That's going a bit far.  Quite what aspect of my exercise did I fail to render well?

[j_menz]

That's going a bit far.  Quite what aspect of my exercise did I fail to render well?

Speed, evenness, control in general but particularly tonal and temporal.

I don't mean to be harsh, but it does sound like you haven't been doing it for long. That would seem to preclude an assessment of it's ultimate benefits. If you have in fact been doing it for ages, it apparently hasn't even fixed the problems that are preventing you mastering it itself, much less displaying a potential to remedy technical issues more generally.

[hardy_practice]

Speed, evenness, control in general but particularly tonal and temporal.

I don't mean to be harsh, but it does sound like you haven't been doing it for long. That would seem to preclude an assessment of it's ultimate benefits. If you have in fact been doing it for ages, it apparently hasn't even fixed the problems that are preventing you mastering it itself, much less displaying a potential to remedy technical issues more generally.

Speed?  What's wrong?  Evenness?  Not sure what tonal and temporal mean.

[j_menz]

Speed?  What's wrong?  Evenness?  Not sure what tonal and temporal mean.

Speed is neither fast enough, nor slow enough for any benefit to accrue.

Tonal relates to tone quality. Temporal relates to time. Neither are even, nor it seems purposely not; merely accidentally not.

[hardy_practice]

Speed is neither fast enough, nor slow enough for any benefit to accrue.

Tonal relates to tone quality. Temporal relates to time. Neither are even, nor it seems purposely not; merely accidentally not.

Neither fast enough or slow enough?  I can redo it as either if you like - give me the tempo you want.  You'll just have to take my word for it - purposely not.

[j_menz]

60 notes per minute. As  it's a purposely chosen performance, this time choose perfect evenness in time and volume, legato, mf and dolce.

[hardy_practice]

60 notes per minute. As  it's a purposely chosen performance, this time choose perfect evenness in time and volume, legato, mf and dolce.

No, that I won't do because then it wouldn't be music.  1 note a second?  are you sure?

[pianoplayer002]

Speed?  What's wrong?  Evenness?  Not sure what tonal and temporal mean.

The tone is uneven and the length of the different notes is uneven. If you play an exercise like this to improve the control of your fingers it will only be of real benefit if you make sure you play at such a tempo that you have mental control over every movement. Once it is perfectly even (and played musically!) you can try to play it faster.

[hardy_practice]

The tone is uneven and the length of the different notes is uneven. If you play an exercise like this to improve the control of your fingers it will only be of real benefit if you make sure you play at such a tempo that you have mental control over every movement. Once it is perfectly even (and played musically!) you can try to play it faster.

but that's taking all the music out!

edit:
You'll find the tone etc. is consistent within each tune - basically there are 3 tunes:  finger 4 most important, 1&2 poignant, 5 imploring??

 I'll delete this later but it gives you an idea where it's headed (a few more days?):

[pianoplayer002]

but that's taking all the music out!

edit:
You'll find the tone etc. is consistent within each tune - basically there are 3 tunes:  finger 4 most important, 1&2 poignant, 5 imploring??

 I'll delete this later but it gives you an idea where it's headed (a few more days?):

It's still very uneven. But that's not to say that playing with even tone and note values is taking all the music out. You should play it so it sounds like a violin, with beautiful phrasing, but with the same intensity of tone on each note. Playing with even tone is absolutely not the same as mindlessly drilling hammered out notes!

[hardy_practice]

It's still very uneven.

How about I put it this way - by playing with even tones you lose your texture.  At the moment, as I pointed out, I've got a 3 tune texture.  That only exists because each 'tune' has it's individual characteristics.

Actually now I have to practice it with only 2 'tunes' as I need to accent every 3rd note of the group:

[nyiregyhazi]

How about I put it this way - by playing with even tones you lose your texture.  At the moment, as I pointed out, I've got a 3 tune texture.  That only exists because each 'tune' has it's individual characteristics.

Actually now I have to practice it with only 2 'tunes' as I need to accent every 3rd note of the group:

I suggest people ignore this idiot troll and leave him to revel in his buffoonery alone. The only reason he is posting such drivel about such a complete mess (and then talking his abysmal playing up) is because he wants to bait people into arguing. He knows full well quite how idiotic his statements are to anyone with basic standards and simply enjoys seeing people who care about music getting annoyed- hence the ludicrous combination of hubris and incompetence. It's a joke to him.

He already knows full well how musically awful the results are- which is why it's funny to him to speak of taking music out which was never present. He just enjoys making hypocritical statements and such  outlandish claims as the title,, to annoy. Don't waste your time trying to educate someone who is only interested in a truly pathetic wind up. This is just a very bad Andy Kaufman wannabe.

[pianoplayer002]

How about I put it this way - by playing with even tones you lose your texture.  At the moment, as I pointed out, I've got a 3 tune texture.  That only exists because each 'tune' has it's individual characteristics.

That's a good ambition, however, this exercise is not written as several tunes, but as one melodic line. If he'd written it as several separate voices it'd be okay, but he didn't. Think of it as if you are playing a violin, playing a beautiful arpeggio. The more choices you have over how to play something the better, and being able to play it evenly will improve your control over more advanced textures too.

Actually now I have to practice it with only 2 'tunes' as I need to accent every 3rd note of the group:

That's better. Your fifth still looks a bit clumsy, you are kind of holding it away and then clawing at the keys instead of manipulating them. It looks like you press down too much with the arm on certain notes, this can be a big cause of unevenness. Try playing the exercise, but this time play it on your left arm instead of on the keyboard, it will help you sense which fingers you are pressing down on.

[hardy_practice]

Hey, thanks for your intelligent input.  I've tried to be clear though that it's an adaptation of Brahms.  It's actually my exercise and does not involve even playing at all.  I was hoping that would be obvious from the playing - obviously not.

[pianoplayer002]

Hey, thanks for your intelligent input.  I've tried to be clear though that it's an adaptation of Brahms.  It's actually my exercise and does not involve even playing at all.  I was hoping that would be obvious from the playing - obviously not.

Unfortunately, and sorry to be this harsh, it mostly sounds like somebody who tries to play an even flow of notes but fails. In your first video, the first figure is even but then it starts to become uneven and you start accenting the top note instead of the first note in the figure, as well as dropping some of the notes your 4th plays, so the result is that it sounds like you lost control.

[nyiregyhazi]

I rest my case. Hilarious, eh?

[hardy_practice]

Unfortunately, and sorry to be this harsh, it mostly sounds like somebody who tries to play an even flow of notes but fails. In your first video, the first figure is even but then it starts to become uneven and you start accenting the top note instead of the first note in the figure, as well as dropping some of the notes your 4th plays, so the result is that it sounds like you lost control.

OK I'll redo it and make every third not really obviously louder - don't go away.

[nyiregyhazi]

Unfortunately, and sorry to be this harsh, it mostly sounds like somebody who tries to play an even flow of notes but fails. In your first video, the first figure is even but then it starts to become uneven and you start accenting the top note instead of the first note in the figure, as well as dropping some of the notes your 4th plays, so the result is that it sounds like you lost control.

This all goes without saying. Please don't waste your time addressing him as if he were a real person. He is a troll. Even the stupidest person in the world doesn't reliably come up with the single stupidest response to every point made. That takes intelligence and intent. Don't bother to treat him like a real person.

He's rightfully been banned twice already and I suggest posters report this third account to the moderators and ask them to stop this tomfoolery.

[hardy_practice]

Here:

It'll need work to get up speed but can you see I want every 2nd finger 4 loudest?  First finger 4 a bit less, the rest much less?

[pianoplayer002]

Here:

It'll need work to get up speed but can you see I want every 2nd finger 4 loudest?  First finger 4 a bit less, the rest much less?

Yes, it's better. It is more even and I can hear what you try to do. In the first video you almost completely dropped the very note you wanted to accent! I'd suggest you stay in this tempo for now and work on keeping the flow of notes even and beautiful while accenting that 4th finger note. Keep in mind that you mustn't press down with the arm when doing the accent. Try playing it on your left arm like I suggested earlier, it is entirely possible to play that note fortissimo without any sense of pressure down into your arm.

[hardy_practice]

Yes, slow for now.  I haven't explained either I've left the celeste rail on!  That's why bringing out finger 4 is quite the effort.