is it okay to hit 2 keys with 1 finger?

[cwjalex]

i have small hands and im currently learning chopins etude in c minor and the first chord in the 5th measure is F,G, D, F.  Is it okay if i use my thumb to press both the F and G?  this has come up before on certain chords and i was wondering if this okay or if it is considered ghetto technique?  i can finger the chord 1, 2, 4, 5 but it's just awkward and uncomfortable. 

[visitor]

you can do whatever you need to do to get the sound you want/need that also allows you to express yourself as you intend. I do it all the time. And yes w / thumb is way to go. I cannot think of any time i had to do it w/anything other than a thumb, also yes, inteveral of a 2nd is also way i have done so in the past.

 

[bronnestam]

Of course it must be ok ... I would not be able to play certain chords otherwise. My hand span is 9 keys.

[cwjalex]

Of course it must be ok ... I would not be able to play certain chords otherwise. My hand span is 9 keys.

me too.  ive only been playing a year and haven't played many different pieces.  fortunately i haven't found a piece with a chord that i can't reach yet although i know it is inevitable.  i think as long as you can reach an octave you can play the vast majority of pieces.

[gr8ape]

Yes it is the best and correct way to play some chords

Imagine playing an A flat dominant seventh, from G flat to A flat, how would you do it?
Your thumb would play G AND A flat together

[cwjalex]

Yes it is the best and correct way to play some chords

Imagine playing an A flat dominant seventh, from G flat to A flat, how would you do it?
Your thumb would play G AND A flat together

im a newb so i don't know what a dominant seventh chord is.  i have hit two black keys with my thumb before though.  i was just wondering if the snobbish elite looked down on the practice or if everyone did it.

[nystul]

Consider op. 28/7 where Chopin has right hand playing A#,C#,E,A#,C#.  When thumb plays both A# and C# (which conveniently don't have any black keys between them), an average sized adult hand can span this chord.  Otherwise it would be difficult even to roll the chord.

[carl_h]

Sometimes you even have to play a black and white key with the thumb, this is done where the keys meet and can tricky and dangerous if your nails are long :p (this only works if the black key is furthes away from the thumb you are using)

[gr8ape]

im a newb so i don't know what a dominant seventh chord is.  i have hit two black keys with my thumb before though.  i was just wondering if the snobbish elite looked down on the practice or if everyone did it.

Nono, it actually IS the way chopin played some of his chords (I dont remember the source but he was one of first to do this, to the dismay of more "classically" trained keyboardists)

dominant seventh is the triad + lowered seventh degree so for A flat major it is

A flat - C - E flat - G flat - A flat

the chord I mentionned was
G flat - A flat - C - E flat - G flat - A flat

which is surprisingly easy to do by pressing Gflat and Aflat with the thumb

[cwjalex]

Consider op. 28/7 where Chopin has right hand playing A#,C#,E,A#,C#.  When thumb plays both A# and C# (which conveniently don't have any black keys between them), an average sized adult hand can span this chord.  Otherwise it would be difficult even to roll the chord.

that chord is tough.  it's easier for me to do with the left hand and i can just barely do it with the right hand.  i bet a lot of women can't do this chord.  I have slightly smaller than average hands for men but slightly bigger than average for women (im a guy). 

[dima_76557]

is it okay to hit 2 keys with 1 finger?

As a rule, it's OK only if the chord doesn't need any special voicing. As another rule, you can do this not only with the thumb, but also with any other finger if required due to hand size.

In this case with the thumb: go ahead, you have our blessing.

[timothy42b]

Sometimes organists have their fingers on one manual (keyboard) and their thumbs playing a note on the manual below it. 

Not quite the same thing, but just shows the thumb can be flexible.

[louispodesta]

i have small hands and im currently learning chopins etude in c minor and the first chord in the 5th measure is F,G, D, F.  Is it okay if i use my thumb to press both the F and G?  this has come up before on certain chords and i was wondering if this okay or if it is considered ghetto technique?  i can finger the chord 1, 2, 4, 5 but it's just awkward and uncomfortable. 

Factually, there are hundreds of examples throughout the entire repertoire wherein the composer or the editor suggests (in the score) that this be done.

I will take the matter two steps further:  1)  when having to reach, as in a leap, for a single black key note in the right hand that lands on a black key, I couple my third and fourth finger together so as not to incur the possibility of an injury.

And, 2) I post  a link to my news story video, which tells you that with a small (or regular sized) hand, you do not have to "sweat the small stuff."

Earl Wild, who had hands like a tarantula, wrote in his memoir that all of the concert pianists he had experienced during his lifetime had "normally," as a matter of fact, made fingering adjustments to a particular section of a piece based on the morphology of their own hand.

Therefore, you need to get it out of your head that text-based perfection is and has always been an untruth.

[j_menz]

Earl Wild, who had hands like a tarantula

When did tarantulas evolve hands? 

@OP - It's perfectly OK if and only if you actually mean to.

[quantum]

Perfectly fine to do so, as long as it is intended.  Sometimes the chord voicing is suggestive that you actually play two notes with the thumb. 

Another Chopin example would be Op28 no4, in which there are several instances that playing two notes with the thumb is the most straightforward fingering.

If you want to check out a more excessive example of 2 notes 1 finger, look at Prokofiev Concerto 3, 3rd movement.

[outin]

If you want to check out a more excessive example of 2 notes 1 finger, look at Prokofiev Concerto 3, 3rd movement.

That would be the logical next step for him to try after he has finished this little beginner etude 

  ive only been playing a year and haven't played many different pieces. 

[quantum]

That would be the logical next step for him to try after he has finished this little beginner etude  

Of course it is  

But seriously, as a student I was always checking out music that was way out of my playing ability.  That doesn't mean one can't study the music in other ways.  To me at least it would be a perfectly normal activity.  

Then again a majority of Chopin's work, even his easier pieces, aren't really beginner pieces.  If the OP is up to playing Chopin, would it really hurt to check out some music.  One doesn't have to play a piece in order to learn something from it, or have one's imagination sparked by it.

[cwjalex]

Of course it is  

But seriously, as a student I was always checking out music that was way out of my playing ability.  That doesn't mean one can't study the music in other ways.  To me at least it would be a perfectly normal activity.  

Then again a majority of Chopin's work, even his easier pieces, aren't really beginner pieces.  If the OP is up to playing Chopin, would it really hurt to check out some music.  One doesn't have to play a piece in order to learn something from it, or have one's imagination sparked by it.

this etude doesn't seem that difficult.  although i really have no clue about the difficulty of different pieces and actually prefer playing pieces that are considered ridiculously hard,  that way, everything else will seem easier by comparison.  i did the same thing when i started guitar and it worked for me then.  

[outin]

this etude doesn't seem that difficult.  although i really have no clue about the difficulty of different pieces and actually prefer playing pieces that are considered ridiculously hard,  that way, everything else will seem easier by comparison.  i did the same thing when i started guitar and it worked for me then.  

Do you have a teacher? I think the fact that it does not seem difficult to you is indicative of you not being ready for it...I don't know if this makes sense to you now, but if you stick to piano it probably will later...

Of course you might have special raw talent, but then you don't need to ask anyone what's acceptable, just do it your way if the results sound goos and it does not strain you too much.

[cwjalex]

Do you have a teacher? I think the fact that it does not seem difficult to you is indicative of you not being ready for it...I don't know if this makes sense to you now, but if you stick to piano it probably will later...

Of course you might have special raw talent, but then you don't need to ask anyone what's acceptable, just do it your way if the results sound goos and it does not strain you too much.

 i have a teacher now but for the majority of the time i played the piano i didn't.  I said it didn't seem that difficult because i got through a couple pages and didn't have trouble playing it at tempo and it seems rather repetitive.

[outin]

i have a teacher now but for the majority of the time i played the piano i didn't.  I said it didn't seem that difficult because i got through a couple pages and didn't have trouble playing it at tempo and it seems rather repetitive.

If you have a teacher, do you not ask him/her such questions?

[cwjalex]

If you have a teacher, do you not ask him/her such questions?

i dont see a question anywhere in ur quote

[outin]

i dont see a question anywhere in ur quote

Questions about fingering a chord. It's usually the teacher's job to assess wheter a certain fingering is physically and musically functional, because he can see and hear you play.

[cwjalex]

Questions about fingering a chord. It's usually the teacher's job to assess wheter a certain fingering is physically and musically functional, because he can see you play.

i have lots of questions and i only have lessons once a week.  i would rather have them answered asap instead of just waiting till lessons.  a lot of the questions i ask during lessons are the ones that are specific to sheet music and my playing and the questions that would be difficult to answer online.  for a question such as this it's a lot easier to ask you guys since i got my answer immediately and didn't have to wait a week.  also my lessons are only 30 minutes (although usually my teacher goes for 45 minutes) and there is barely enough time as it is.

[outin]

i have lots of questions and i only have lessons once a week.  i would rather have them answered asap instead of just waiting till lessons.  a lot of the questions i ask during lessons are the ones that are specific to sheet music and my playing and the questions that would be difficult to answer online.  for a question such as this it's a lot easier to ask you guys since i got my answer immediately and didn't have to wait a week.  also my lessons are only 30 minutes (although usually my teacher goes for 45 minutes) and there is barely enough time as it is.

Ok.But if you asked your teacher he might explain to you more generally the things you should consider when deciding fingerings. Whether some people in the internet find it acceptable really is not that important

[cwjalex]

Ok.But if you asked your teacher he might explain to you more generally the things you should consider when deciding fingerings. Whether some people in the internet find it acceptable really is not that important

it wasn't a specific fingering but rather the general use of a finger hitting two keys.  people told me that chopin himself did this so i learned that it was a common practice.  if it were frowned upon i would try to avoid it but evidently it is not.

[outin]

it wasn't a specific fingering but rather the general use of a finger hitting two keys.  people told me that chopin himself did this so i learned that it was a common practice.  if it were frowned upon i would try to avoid it but evidently it is not.

That was my point: Don't make decisions by what Chopin did or others frowning or not on something, but what works for your hands and for the music. Let your teacher guide you on this.

Half an hour a week lesson seems a bit short for someone learning such advanced repertoire. My 45 minutes are often not sufficient and I'm working on much easier music.

Your idea of jumping into the deep end of the pool before you can swim at all because then the shallow end will feel easier does not seem such a good idea to me

[cwjalex]

Your idea of jumping into the deep end of the pool before you can swim at all because then the shallow end will feel easier does not seem such a good idea to me

i also work on easy pieces as well but they are in conjunction with pieces that are very technically difficult.  like i said before this is the same approach i had with guitar and it worked great.  it took a lot of work and effort to play things that were years beyond my experience but i believe the constant pushing of my abilities as far as possible made me progress faster.  it is also nice when you try to play an average difficulty piece after working on insanely difficult stuff and the average difficulty piece feels very easy in comparison.

[littlemac]

Sometimes that is the only way you can play a complicated chord.  There are several instances in Rhapsody in Blue where this is the case.

[louispodesta]

i have lots of questions and i only have lessons once a week.  i would rather have them answered asap instead of just waiting till lessons.  a lot of the questions i ask during lessons are the ones that are specific to sheet music and my playing and the questions that would be difficult to answer online.  for a question such as this it's a lot easier to ask you guys since i got my answer immediately and didn't have to wait a week.  also my lessons are only 30 minutes (although usually my teacher goes for 45 minutes) and there is barely enough time as it is.

Has not anyone, who has had a fairly decent teacher, have a problem with the logistics associated with the OP's lesson?

The point is that the reason the one hour lesson is the normal time frame is that it is barely is enough time to get it all done.  I had a lesson with my late teacher once a month, and it went on for three hours, with a short break in between.

Either you are a serious pianist, or you are not!  If you are, then you, and whatever teacher you choose, will have to dedicate the time necessary to achieve the aspired result.