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Topic: How long does it take you to learn a new piano piece?  (Read 57046 times)

Offline chopin2256

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How long does it take you to learn a new piano piece?
on: December 03, 2004, 01:50:34 AM
I am estimating that it took me about 80 hours to learn Chopin's Scherzo in B flat minor.  Obviously some days I practice longer than others.  I practice about 2 or 3 days a week.

Still have to tune it up, but for the most part, its all done.  (Haven't played piano in such a long time before this)

I probably could learn something like "The Entertainer" in 5-10 hours, same as Maple Leaf Rag (I used to play ragtime music)

I am about 15 hours into Chopin's Ballade #1.  Got it all memorized, but now I need to get the harder parts into my hands...presto 4/4 time...hardest part of that piece...yet my favorite. 

Practicing to get it into my hands is what takes most of the time away.  I basically can practice this piece now without even needing the sheet music at this point.

How long does it take a good pianist, or some of you, to learn the pieces I have mentioned?  Any other examples?
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Offline april

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Re: How long does it take you to learn a new piano piece?
Reply #1 on: December 03, 2004, 03:35:27 PM
I haven't learned either of those pieces, but I'm not sure it matters how much time it takes to learn something. What matters is the result.
I don't get to practice much either, I work full time, and then teach 3-4 hours when I get home several nights each week. Plus my own lesson sucks up an evening. I just try to work really effectively when I do practice - which it sounds like you are doing.
A performer I heard a while back told the audience he had learned the concerto he played in a month. Well, I thought it sounded like it! (meaning I didn't think it was all that good - technically fine, but lacking musicality). But I felt like a dolt after that, cuz sometimes it takes me a really long time to learn something. I have a Schumann piece that I've been learning on and off for a year and a half (someday it will be done I hope).
So I think you should just trust in yourself and what you are doing.

Offline richard w

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Re: How long does it take you to learn a new piano piece?
Reply #2 on: December 04, 2004, 01:23:45 AM
I'd be fascinated to learn how long it takes a professional pianist to get a piece to a performance-ready stage. Based on the recordings made by those pianists at the top of their profession, they must be able to absorb new music faster than I can. For instance, I recently acquired Vladimir Ashkenazy's DECCA recording of Chopin's piano works (c. 13.5 hours). I know he recorded it over a 10 year period, but I think I would be stretched well beyond my capability to attempt a similar feat - and it wouldn't sound as good! But, consider that Ashkenazy would have been recording and performing plenty of other repertoire during the same period too.

As for figures about my own learning speed, I've been working on Chopin's Polonaise-fantaisie Op.61 recently. Just a moment ago I ended my practise session with the first 'successful' run through from memory of all 13½ minutes. There were a couple of memory slips (I recovered, just), I messed up some tricky bits, there was a liberal scattering of wrong notes in certain passages and I don't feel I have the 'interpretation' up to scratch yet either. Some sections are in need of further work to achieve the quality of playing I want, too. I'm good at pointing out the bad things, but I think any lay person would have enjoyed my efforts (if they liked Chopin).

How long has it taken me so far? I was inspired to start this piece having head it on the radio on 22 October. I wouldn't have been able to open the score until 23 October, so I make that 42 days. I can really only guess how many hours I have spent on it per day. Sometimes almost none, other times four hours, maybe even five (during a week I had off work). If I say 1.5 to 2 hours a day, then I guess that must be 60-80 hours work so far - but it's a bit of a guess.

But, I know perfectly well that I've not been super disciplined with my time usage. I often play well beyond the section I'm supposed to be working on, and tend to play through rather than stop and sort out those bits that need tidying up. I guess this is where the answer to faster learning lies. When I have it cracked I will work my way through the other fifty-nine sixtieths of Chopin's music.

Offline dinosaurtales

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Re: How long does it take you to learn a new piano piece?
Reply #3 on: December 04, 2004, 01:48:46 AM
I'd like to know what you mean by "learn to play".  In my instance, I get a piece clean, memorized, and can perform for a group, but by no means is it "recital ready" in the sense that I would perform it for a large audience.  That said, it still takes me FOREVER to learn anything.  I will be playing the Beethoven Appassionata for a piano group (hopefully) for the last time.  My teacher says it's time to move on.  I have been working this sucker for over a year, and I practice an hour (or two if I can) a day.  But I am willing to say it's solid as a rock. 
So much music, so little time........

Offline Ludvig_Van_Me

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Re: How long does it take you to learn a new piano piece?
Reply #4 on: December 04, 2004, 02:57:17 AM
i find that impressive dinosaur; to have Appassionata rock solid after a year.


I have started working on Beethoven's 'Hammerklavier' and it's taken a good 3 months to be able to play the first 2 pages reletively competently.


I'll tell you now, if you don't have big hands stay away from this piece. :)


Offline jon

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Re: How long does it take you to learn a new piano piece?
Reply #5 on: December 04, 2004, 04:13:49 AM
It seems like alot of people on this forum learn songs in like a month or two.I cannot tell how well they can play them but it seems like i take so long to learn a piece.I learned Chopin's scherzo in b flat minor last year and it took me around 10 months to where i was completely confident in it and could perform it in front of a large crowd.I'm sure some of it is due to me not being able to sight read good at all.But i guess it is different for every person.

Offline fowler

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Re: How long does it take you to learn a new piano piece?
Reply #6 on: December 06, 2004, 12:45:18 PM
It takes me quite a long time to learn an advanced piece thats for sure, but am getting quicker through practice. I have a good memory so learning the notes is the easy part, I just get worried when its a long piece I am learning and whether or not if I played it all at once, would I mess the end up or somewhere in the middle.

It took me about a year to try to perfect chopin's black key study a couple of years ago, still now cant quite get every note spot on, now I am working on the Chopin ballad no.1, has took a month on and off to get half of it in my head, the thing that gets me is it starts of easy and gets hard then easy again, then very hard at the end, and I dont know how to play the fast notes with both hands together in the G minor scale at the very end effectively, any advice?

I take different sections of a difficult piece and learn them, and forget about the easier parts till the very end, so time spent  really depends on mastering the trickier parts.

Offline quasimodo

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Re: How long does it take you to learn a new piano piece?
Reply #7 on: December 06, 2004, 12:50:33 PM
In the same domain, I would like to know from professional pianists (including high level students and teachers) on this forum if they learn many pieces or only one in the same period ?
" On ne joue pas du piano avec deux mains : on joue avec dix doigts. Chaque doigt doit être une voix qui chante"

Samson François

Offline mound

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Re: How long does it take you to learn a new piano piece?
Reply #8 on: December 06, 2004, 02:41:16 PM
I'm no pro, I can't really speak to your question, other than by saying that as my practice techniques and sight reading improve, it's getting faster and faster.  Take my current piece Malaguena by Ernesto Lecuena. It's 115 bars and rather challenging in certain regards. I've been learning it for 2 months and as of, probably 3 weeks ago, I had the entire thing memorized and playable at slow speed.  I have learned a great deal during that time however about practice organization and learning techniques, and I could probably learn a new piece of similar difficulty in half that time..  No, it's not "performance ready" (at the speed I want, but I can perform is slowly and it's quite beautiful)  but now that the "grunt work" is done, the real fun begins!

I practice about 2 or 3 days a week.

Anyway, in your case, I couldn't help but notice the above statement. You are doing yourself a great disservice by only practicing 2 or 3 days a week, even if they are "marathon sessions".. Look around these forums for posts by Bernhard on planning, organization, the "7 20 rule" etc.  -  the point being you will learn and retain significantly more by doing 10 minutes everday for 6 days (for example) than you would doing 30 minutes only two times a week due to the way your brain retains new information and more importantly, due to the incredible rate at which your brain loses new information if it's not seen/learned again the very next day.  I dare say that if it takes you 80 hours to learn a piece working 2 days a week, you could probably cut that down by 50% at least if you put in some well organized time every day.  I've recently added two little puppies to my life (awwwww  ;) and as such I'm no longer doing my 2 hours stretch every morning. At first I was upset/worried about how to proceed, but having learning what I have from Bernhard's writings, I'm actually getting more done in less time per day (at the piano) than I was before the puppies arrived. Anyway, read Bernhard's material on this site, he does the process more justice than I ever could :)


-Paul

Offline Alde

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Re: How long does it take you to learn a new piano piece?
Reply #9 on: December 06, 2004, 07:05:57 PM
Sometimes pianists have to learn music very quickly - for example an accompanist gets sick or an instrumentalist is stuck and needs one very quickly.   But learning a piece very quickly for a solo performance is dangerous.  Because like most others have replied that it takes time to develop an interpretation.  For some pianists it takes years before one feels confident to perform a Beethoven Sonata, especially if one is getting paid.
Most professional pianists had to learn a lot of music very quickly during their university/college studies.  The reason is because when enters the adult life, there is not much time to practice.  One cannot practice 8-10 hours like they used to, unless one only performs for a living.
To sum up, there is really no big rush to learn a piece.  Take time, enjoy and work out all the details.

Offline bernhard

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Re: How long does it take you to learn a new piano piece?
Reply #10 on: December 06, 2004, 07:19:42 PM
I learn an average of 30 pieces on any month - this does not mean that I complete 30 pieces per month, but rather that I work on 30 pieces per month. How can one work on so many pieces simultaneously? Well, it is not really done simultaneously. When I work on a piece I give my full, undivided attention to it But as soon as that particular practice session is over, I do not think about it again until the next day. Also they are of widely diverse levels of difficulties. So although my average practice session is 20 minutes, some sessions will take only a couple of minutes, while others may take as much as one hour. Also a “practice session” does not necessarily mean practice at the piano. Work on the score, listening to CDs, and watching DVDs are all equally important practice activities.

It takes a lot of planning and discipline – this is the main stumbling block. But as with most things, consistence in the key.

And by the way, Paul is right: you need to practise everyday - even if it is a short session. Practising only 3 times per weeks multiply the time taken to learn a piece by a factor of 12 (I kid you not). (this means that it will take one year what could take one month)

Best wishes,
Bernhard.
The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side. (Hunter Thompson)

Offline hodi

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Re: How long does it take you to learn a new piano piece?
Reply #11 on: December 06, 2004, 07:34:15 PM
it takes me a long time to learn a piece, cause i want it to be extremly perfect... it took me about 5 months to learn bach's tocatta and fugue in d minor and perfect it to the maxium of my limit.

Offline lostinidlewonder

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Re: How long does it take you to learn a new piano piece?
Reply #12 on: December 07, 2004, 01:55:59 AM
I have a schedule I work by for pieces want to add to my peforming repertoire. So those peices are my main focus, usually it is around 14 pieces a year for that, or around 70 minutes of playing. This is so that I can keep a constant cycle of periodic concert peformances going. But as well I'll dabble with pieces that I think in the future I would like to learn or are just interesting to experience.

I do at least 3 hours of personal piano playing every day, and that is divided into playing(pieces ive learnt and memorised) and practicing(memorising new stuff).

for example ths year, Reflets dan leau from debussy, took me just over 1 week effort to get to peformance level. Because the use of chords and scale he chooses are very obvious, like the whole tone and pentatonic, it makes it easier to memorise and control.
Ravel's Sonatine three movements took about just over a month. Ravel's Gaspard de la Nuit took 4 months to get to standard. Bach Prelude and Fugue Bk1and Bk2  No 6, 4 weeks. Beethoven Les Adieux 6 weeks. Scriabin Etudes and Preludes, i did bits and pieces here and there, probably 1 week average on each, some took longer to get to standard, op42no5 4weeks.

I reckon these times get faster and faster, im still a pretty new, i started a music career 2001 at the age of 20 so I personally have a lot of catching up to do, but its all fun and what else is there to do :)!!
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Offline richard w

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Re: How long does it take you to learn a new piano piece?
Reply #13 on: December 07, 2004, 01:43:10 PM
Hmmm, thinking further about some of the more recent comments that have been added, I recall when I was at University... First study pianists were required to accompany other instrumentalists in their recitals. Some 'pianists' begrudged this task, as we were each paired up with three other players, but I took to this challenge with enthusiasm and ended up doing 7 other recitals besides my own. Some pieces were straightforward, for instance I Know That My Redeemer Liveth, but others required quite a lot of learning, for instance a Brahms violin concerto. Despite having to come up with 1.5 or more hours of extra music besides my own recital, I coped, even though I probably only had 5 or 10 weeks to learn this extra work. This was largely by looking at each piece in the way Bernhard mentions above.

Do you know, I'd quite forgotten all this. I don't seem to be learning music at this rate anymore, but that is because I don't have to. Necessity is the mother of all invention. If you have to learn a number of pieces for a given date then you will, if the challenge is at all possible. However, if you don't line up any performing opportunities and your teacher doesn't bother if you progress slowly, then all the desire in the world to play well will count for very little.

I think one very important element to learning the piano must be that you seek as early as possible lots of reasons to learn and play; lots of performance opportunities. Without reasons to play, who would bother?



(I must do a bit more seeking of my own.)

Offline richard w

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Re: How long does it take you to learn a new piano piece?
Reply #14 on: December 07, 2004, 02:17:29 PM
One more thing, about a year ago I started trying to learn the organ. I have been practicing for around three hours once a week. I now understand why my progress is so bad - as if I didn't know anyway. Unfortunately, it is a bit impractical to put in 7 20-minute practice sessions a week, but if nothing else it is a bit of fun. I suppose I ought to address this problem now I am so completely aware of it. ;D

Offline YeShallBeGods

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Re: How long does it take you to learn a new piano piece?
Reply #15 on: December 16, 2004, 02:34:49 AM
It all depends on the calibur of the piece... I've done things like the Schubert Improptus in the span of three or four weeks, whereas other pieces take me much, much longer; I'm on track for the Chopin Scherzo to take me about nine months, and the Waldstein looks to take me about a year... I generally try to have a mix of pieces at different stages, so that I'm always learning the notes for one, bringing another one up to tempo, and working on fixing the musical problems with another; it helps to add variety to my practice and makes sure none of my skills get rusty.

I imagine if I'd played longer I'd be significantly faster at learning pieces (I started very late at age thirteen, so I've just barely had seven years of lessons), but I move along at a nice enough pace... for me at least, maybe not my teacher :)

Offline Fasolatido

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Re: How long does it take you to learn a new piano piece?
Reply #16 on: December 19, 2004, 12:24:33 AM
an entire semester

Offline gkatele

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Re: How long does it take you to learn a new piano piece?
Reply #17 on: December 19, 2004, 01:25:43 PM
Interesting discussion....

A while ago, I posted a "so, how am I doin'" question here. I've been lessoning for the first time in 30 years and resurrecting some of my old warhorses (Grieg Sonata, Rach C# minor prelude) and tackling the Well Tempered.

I started lessons in August and I play every day that I'm not working a 24 hour shift. I play for about an hour, but lately, I've been doing 2-3 20 minute sessions a day.

Since August, I've learned the Prelude and Fugue from Book 1 in C-minor, and I can read my way through the fugue in C-major. I've got the 1st movement of the Grieg sonata back, and I've re-learned the Beethoven Op. 49 #2 (easy).

So, in four months, about 4 pieces. Seems to be what most people here are doing (even at my rudimentary level).


George
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Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read."
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Offline musicsdarkangel

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Re: How long does it take you to learn a new piano piece?
Reply #18 on: December 21, 2004, 12:09:45 AM
It depends on the difficulty of the piece. 

I just took almost 4 months to learn la campanella (Liszt), probably playing around an hour a day on it average.  That's 120 hours!

Of course, I take it into consideration that this is my first Liszt piece, and after this, the Mephisto Waltz seems like it will be much easier (I have 3 pages learned descently out of 20 over the last two days). 

Learning a Chopin etude used to take me around 2 months of an hour a day.

This year, I feel like I have increased my abilities tremendously (I am 19), and hopefully I will keep doing so.  I feel intimidated by these professionals (Ashkenazy is one of my favorites), and hopefully someday I will be able to do nearly that much repitoire. 

I think that the memorization is what has been killing me with this Franck Symphony and variations.  I am halfway through it, and it has been four months.  When it comes to the Liszt, mastering the technique has hurt me. 

It all depends on the music.

Hopefully, learning these ridiculous works will not only help my technique but also memorization.

Glissando

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Re: How long does it take you to learn a new piano piece?
Reply #19 on: December 21, 2004, 01:11:12 AM
Well, I'm a serious high school student- probably not exactly what you're looking for but I'm replying anyway. ;)
I'm generally working on 5-6 pieces at a time- some long pieces (like sonatas) and some shorter ones (inventions, preludes, etc.). I usually finish at least one piece every month.
It takes me about 1-3 weeks to perfect a short-ish Bach piece, depending on how much I'm concentrating on it and how difficult it is.
I'm working on a Chopin Nocturne right now, started it about 1 month ago and its almost finished- one more page to go. I'll have it done by the end of January.
It takes me about 3-4 months to learn a (complete) Mozart Sonata if it's the main thing I'm working on.
I practice usually 2 hours a day. That doesn't include listening to music (which I do constantly, even while I'm doing my school work- Mozart makes you smarter, right? ;)) and studying theory- and of course reading piano forums! :D
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