Coda of Chopin Étude Op. 10 No.4 (C# minor)

[daggenhurstfan]

Hello all!

So i had a quick question regarding the final bit of this etude in terms of fingering..

Most (actually all) editions i've referenced suggest the following in the right hand:
2-3-2-5 | 1-3-2-5 | 1-3-2-5 | 1-3-2-5 |1-3-2-5 | 1-2-1-5 |1-2-1-5 |

while i see the advantageousness of this fingering in the middle of the piece where the intervals are larger, it seems that at the end the tightness between the black keys makes the fingering a little uncomfortable

My idea would be to make it | 1-2-1-5 | the whole way day and in fact i've learned it already thusly - but i do see how the thumb could get clunky and perhaps fatigued (though the end is so loud perhaps clunky is good?)

Also ALL editions i've seen start with the "sophisticated" fingering but later when the hands are mirroring each other they give up and suggest just doing |1-2-1-5 | to make it more symmetrical, so it's not to say that my fingering is frowned upon by the various editors seeing as they are using it in part

tl:dr: what's your right hand fingering?

thanks

[faulty_damper]

If you have to ask a question about fingering for this study, then you aren't ready for it.

[daggenhurstfan]

If you have to ask a question about fingering for this study, then you aren't ready for it.

That's a silly mindset, i can play it fine, just trying to nail down an ideal fingering, and why not help out with an answer instead?

[dima_76557]

That's a silly mindset

Although I helped you out in the "Winterwind" topic, I have to agree with  faulty_damper: fingerings are based on certain principles (either melodic/structural or passage/ornamental); they are not supposed to be isolated instructions for every separate piece or passage. A person who tackles this kind of repertoire is really supposed to put the required mental effort in him/herself to find ideal fingerings.

In all Chopin etudes, the arm leads, the hand follows, and the fingers simply fall into place. If that is the case, then your fingering is most probably the right one for you. Chopin NEVER requires you to tire yourself out, so if you already have a good technique (knowledge about fingering principles included!) but a certain fingering causes "fatigue" as such, then it should best be reconsidered.

P.S.: Don't you have a teacher to discuss this with?

[hardy_practice]

https://chopin.lib.uchicago.edu/gsdl/cgi-bin/library?e=d-000-00---0chopin--00-0-0-0prompt-10---4---Document---0-1l--1-en-Zz-1---50-home---001-001-1-0utfZz-8-0&a=d&cl=CL3.5.1&d=CHOP045.19

Check out the above (+ is thumb).  It's Fontana's fingering.  My guess his trying to keep the thumb off the black notes but then gives up??  If you're happy with yours, why not?

[daggenhurstfan]

Although I helped you out in the "Winterwind" topic, I have to agree with  faulty_damper: fingerings are based on certain principles (either melodic/structural or passage/ornamental); they are not supposed to be isolated instructions for every separate piece or passage. A person who tackles this kind of repertoire is really supposed to put the required mental effort in him/herself to find ideal fingerings.

In all Chopin etudes, the arm leads, the hand follows, and the fingers simply fall into place. If that is the case, then your fingering is most probably the right one for you. Chopin NEVER requires you to tire yourself out, so if you already have a good technique (knowledge about fingering principles included!) but a certain fingering causes "fatigue" as such, then it should best be reconsidered.

P.S.: Don't you have a teacher to discuss this with?

My professor instructed me to do whatever felt most natural, i'm not trying to cut myself short on any mental effort, i play both fingerings incessantly trying to figure out which one i prefer, such was the case with that chromatic scale. That's why i wanted to see what other people were doing.

[daggenhurstfan]

https://chopin.lib.uchicago.edu/gsdl/cgi-bin/library?e=d-000-00---0chopin--00-0-0-0prompt-10---4---Document---0-1l--1-en-Zz-1---50-home---001-001-1-0utfZz-8-0&a=d&cl=CL3.5.1&d=CHOP045.19

Check out the above (+ is thumb).  It's Fontana's fingering.  My guess his trying to keep the thumb off the black notes but then gives up??  If you're happy with yours, why not?

Interesting, that's the first edited edition in which i've seen the thumb placed on all the downbeats, the helps a lot! thanks

[daggenhurstfan]

Update:

Advice to all who find this thread, i was just being stubborn and not wanting to change my fingering, there's definitely a good physical reason why all the editions recommend the 1-3-2-5, it's really the only way, otherwise the thumb just bounces down the cause tension and fatigue

[hardy_practice]

Interesting, that's the first edited edition in which i've seen the thumb placed on all the downbeats, the helps a lot! thanks

no.  Some are finger 2 (1 in English fingering).

[daggenhurstfan]

no.  Some are finger 2 (1 in English fingering).

Oh i see i took 1 and + to be thumb which in hindsight doesn't make sense haha, so even a friend of Chopin uses the standard fingering, hence the reason i suppose it's standard,, thanks a lot! i've indicated it in my own score