can someone explain pierre boulez?

[cwjalex]

okay i have listened to pierre boulez piano sonata no.2 and i don't get it at all.  can someone explain to me how this work is "genius" and a "masterpiece"?  i am open minded and genuinely tried to listen to this entire piece several times to try and get it.  i even know how to play the first couple measures i listened to it so many times trying to understand it.  despite my attempt i still despise this piece and almost don't like to even consider it music.  When i listen to it i feel nothing.  it arouses no emotion.  there's no melody.  for me it's like being in an art museum and looking at a piece of art but it's just a length of rope with a nail through it.  no matter how long i stare at it and try to understand it the meaning eludes me. 

[awesom_o]

It's kind of nice to put on in the background as you take a long, hot bath.

Relaxing... kind of like new-age, but for people who can't abide new-age!

Try it some time!

[outin]

This is not the kind of music that can or should be explained IMO. There's a method of composition behind it of course, but I don't think it's important for the meaning of the music. The meanings are formed in my mind and they are completely different to someone elses. I can just say that I enjoy listening to it. It speaks to me, probably because I am NOT trying to "understand" it. Or maybe one needs a chaotic mind like mine to be able to enjoy this type of music  

[awesom_o]

It speaks to me, probably because I am NOT trying to "understand" it.

That's a good point, I think.
I tend to enjoy this sort of music more when I don't seek to understand it. Hence the bath idea.

[cwjalex]

i see lots of people say they enjoy but i haven't come across a good explanation yet.  when i listen to it several times certain listens i wouldn't think at all and try to make it as natural as i could.  no matter what i couldn't lie to myself.  i didn't like it and there was nothing about it i enjoyed.

[outin]

I'm listening to it right now actually. Awesome is right, it has a calming effect. Such unconventional harmonies resonate in the brain in a very special way. Also the progressions free the mind from the usual expectations of "melody", it's very liberating.

[cwjalex]

I'm listening to it right now actually. Awesome is right, it has a calming effect. Such unconventional harmonies resonate in the brain in a very special way. Also the progressions free the mind from the usual expectations of "melody", it's very liberating.

to each their own i suppose.  i have a hard time believing that cacaphony has more of a calming effect than a beautiful melody.  i'm surprised pieces like this even gain fame since there are huge amount of musicians, even famous ones, that absolutely despire boulez and some even liken him to hitler loL.

[perfect_pitch]

i have listened to pierre boulez piano sonata no.2 and i don't get it at all.  

Would it be right if I said there is nothing to get...

Sorry to all those out there who think this work is brilliant, but it sounds like the playing of a psychotic drunk at the piano

I'm listening to it right now actually. Awesome is right, it has a calming effect.

SERIOUSLY??? I'm actually getting a headache listening to it...

i didn't like it and there was nothing about it i enjoyed.

I am SO with you on that. I personally think it's S**T! It might be nice to listen to after you've drunk 3 bottles of scotch, but I only presume that after that much alcohol you would appreciate it, if you weren't DEAD!!!

[outin]

SERIOUSLY??? I'm actually getting a headache listening to it...

Even my cats calmed down during the 4th movement

[awesom_o]

i see lots of people say they enjoy but i haven't come across a good explanation yet. 

I wouldn't pay to hear it in a concert hall.... but I'd enjoy it for free on the internet while taking a bath. 

[quantum]

It is "light" music to me.  Something to sit back and relax to.  If you go into it without trying to pre-analyze it on similar terms to more mainstream music, you could probably come out with a better experience of it.  Try approaching it with the sense of discovery a child has when walking in the woods. 

[cwjalex]

It is "light" music to me.  Something to sit back and relax to.  If you go into it without trying to pre-analyze it on similar terms to more mainstream music, you could probably come out with a better experience of it.  Try approaching it with the sense of discovery a child has when walking in the woods. 

people seem to think that i am thinking too hard or analyzing too hard when listening but that only happened AFTER i casually listened to it and found no redeeming qualities.  for me music is rhythm and melody and that boulez piece has neither. 

[quantum]

Search for something in the music that is unrecognizable or undefinable to you, but that you do like.  Granted, the type of rhythm and melody in the music may not be to your taste, there are other things one can appreciate about it.

[cwjalex]

Search for something in the music that is unrecognizable or undefinable to you, but that you do like.  Granted, the type of rhythm and melody in the music may not be to your taste, there are other things one can appreciate about it.

i can't find anything that i like.  i can appreciate any kind of rhythm and melody but the problem is that boulez has no rhythm or melody and consciously tries to avoid it in his compositions. 

i think a lot of people who claim they like it just want to appear artsy and cool.  if they actually liked this stuff they would listen to it regularly.  for the people who do listen to it regularly, okay, you like it.  but don't be fake and say you like it if you never listen to it

[j_menz]

i think a lot of people who claim they like it just want to appear artsy and cool.  if they actually liked this stuff they would listen to it regularly.  for the people who do listen to it regularly, okay, you like it.  but don't be fake and say you like it if you never listen to it

It's perfectly OK to not like Boulez's music, but please don't fall into the (all too common) error of thinking that those who claim to are kidding about it and secretly don't.

Boulez has never particularly grabbed me (his conducting aside, I should say), but there are, I suspect, plenty of other composers who I like very much that you (and others) would blanch at.

Also, don't write him off forever. Dip in occasionally - tastes and perspectives change.

[cwjalex]

i acknowledge that there are people who legitimately like his stuff but i think many people who claim they do secretly don't.  don't you listen to the music that you like?  if you never listen to something isn't it fair to say that you don't enjoy it very much?

the thing is.  as long as it's not atonal music i am able to enjoy every piece of music i have ever heard.  even annoying pop stuff i can find aspects of it i like.  i really can't find anything about boulez that i like.  i think an argument can be made that it's not even music.  

[j_menz]

Not all atonal music is the same, so don't write off the entire thing.

And if you've never heard a tonal piece that you didn't enjoy, you really haven't been trying.

[cwjalex]

Not all atonal music is the same, so don't write off the entire thing.

And if you've never heard a tonal piece that you didn't enjoy, you really haven't been trying.

i don't enjoy every piece but i can at least appreciate it.  even the pieces i dislike the most i like more than that boulez piece.

[outin]

Well, why should you like this music? There's a lot of music (both tonal and less tonal) that I cannot enjoy.

We are obviously very different, because tonality isn't that important to me. But I see absolutely no reason why my taste is any better than yours, except in my private universe, which is very subjective and only really important to me.

If you have listened to it more than once and you find nothing in it that draws you in, just ditch it as total cr*p and move on. You have every right to do so

[gr8ape]

It is masturbatory self-congratulatory pseudo-intellectual crap.

Do not bother with this bullshit that is almost causing the downfall of "classical" music.

This is elitism in its most abject form. Armchair theorists celebrating their destruction of the essence of music.

[dima_76557]

@ cwjalex

Not that this will help much to "understand" this really difficult music right away, but here is a short analysis of what Boulez does with serialism and tone cells, a concept he later turned away from: A survey of the piano sonatas of Pierre Boulez.

The second sonata is discussed in chapter III on page 18 of the pdf document.

[perfect_pitch]

It is masturbatory self-congratulatory pseudo-intellectual crap.

Do not bother with this bullshit that is almost causing the downfall of "classical" music.

This is elitism in its most abject form. Armchair theorists celebrating their destruction of the essence of music.

Had to be done... best way (in my opinion) of explaining it. Was too good to just post once...

It is masturbatory self-congratulatory pseudo-intellectual crap.