learning Mozart KV 332

[josephine93]

Hello, this is my first post here. I 'm 20 years old and I'm playing the piano now for about 4-5 years. I quitted when I was 12 years old but I restarted last year. I follow private lessons and I started to learn KV 332.

But it's so hard, I really feel like a talentless moron when I try to play it. And I can't get to play the little notes in between right. I'm really demotivated because of it, I am also learning fugue one of Bach and that goes well. But when it's the piece of Mozart I feel like my dog would play it better then me. It's my first piece of Mozart, and I'm starting to think that I'm really not good enough for it.

I don't know if any of you have any advice? I'm really  sad because of it, because it's so elegant and nice.

Thank you very much, Josephine

[cbreemer]

FWIW my advice would be: don't be daunted. If you really really want to play this piece, you can do it. You may have to detach from it emotionally for now. Just chip away at it methodically and mechanically, starting perhaps at half speed. Do take care of phrasing right from the beginning. Don't worry that you don't sound like Haskil or Uchida just yet, just treat it as an etude. Once all the notes are comfortable under the fingers you'll start thinking about expression. It may take time. And you may never be satisfied because you can never equal the greats with a lifetime of experience. The further you get the longer the way ahead seems. It is frustrating but you have to come to grips with it. Such is the nature of music making. You have to rejoice in what you CAN do, not despair about what you can't.

The trick with "little notes", I think, is not to try and make them too little. Take all the time you need for them, try to incorporate them in the musical line and rhythm. Sometimes they are written out that way, with their proper note values. Listen to what famous pianists do with them - everything can be found on YouTube. Whatever you do, give these notes their full due, never
play them hastily or sloppily.

Hope this helps some !

[hfmadopter]

I've tackled pieces that were beyond my capability, in fact my teacher back many years ago when I had a teacher would give them to me. Usually with an accompanying piece of music of a similar flavor but easier. Or segments of one that was actually harder, like a piece of Etude.  You could continue to work on this piece as time permits but pick an easier Mozart piece to get finished and with the thought to get some of that Mozart "flavor" under your belt. The reason this one seems hard is because it is, you need to master the techniques involved in it to make it sound right.. As mentioned in another post, especially the phrasing. Mozart Phrasing is what you take with you to other composers works anyway. If you get yourself Mozart Phrasing trained if nothing else out of this piece you have gained a valuable tool in many many things you play. Don't get down on yourself, as you gain skill you can always come back to this piece and gather something more from it later in life. It's worth working on as a tool though none the less.

Work industriously !

[cwjalex]

what's a "little note in between"?  excuse my ignorance.  i went to go listen to the piece you are referring to thinking i had never heard it but to my surprise it was a piece i already learned! well the first movement.  anyways, don't be discouraged at all.  the thing i found with a lot of the mozart pieces i have learned is that they don't sound all that hard but when you go to learn them they surprise the hell out of you at their difficulty.  also after listening to a recital of a dozens of students who have played piano for 4-5 years or even longer and im pretty sure none of them would be able to play this either so don't feel that you are a 'talentless moron'.  your teacher evidently has enough faith and confidence in your abilities to assign this piece even if it stretches you to the limits of your capabilities.  maybe you are getting demotivated because you aren't giving it enough credit as a difficult piece.  it is by no means a beginner piece and just being able to play the notes at tempo is difficult.  on top of just playing the notes there are dynamic changes everywhere.  also i forgot to mention something important.  my teacher assigned this piece very early on to me and after the first week i learned the notes but obviously could not do the piece any justice and i just outright asked my teacher if we could work on it later because i felt it was too difficult for me at at the time and i didn't love the piece enough to practice it a ridiculous amount of time.  she was totally cool with that and we ended up working on other stuff and coming back to it later after i had gotten better.  don't be discouraged because you are not the only one that struggles with this piece.  i struggled with it and my teacher thinks im a prodigy.

generally though i personally think it's a great idea to try and play pieces that are beyond your technical ability but for me it only works if they are pieces that i am absolutely in love with and therefore am motivated to put in a disgusting amount of time practicing.  i also think whenever you hear an amazing pianist it should motivate rather than demotivate you.  every good pianist (except maybe 1 in a billion and even then im not so sure) has put in a ridiculous amount of time practicing to achieve their skill.  mozart himself in a rare moment of humility was told "you play with such ease and effortlessness" and he responded with "there once was a time i labored hard so that i don't have to labor now" 

[amytsuda]

I am gonna pretty much repeat what everyone wrote. Mozart is HARD, period. The thing is because the score is easier to read compared to romantic repertoires, many teachers give Mozart sonatas to intermediate students. I learned K332 probably when I was around 12, and I had no idea how horribly I was playing. Since the score is easy to read, many kids chop and bang it without realizing that's what they are doing, and that's exactly what I did back then...chop chop. The fact you are feeling the way you are feeling indicates you probably have a great sense of music to know how it's supposed to sound.

Making Mozart sound like music is really hard and it's really technical. It requires so much fines, details, control, focus, yet freedom, humor, emotional depth, everything. And everything is exposed, you can not hide any little mistake. Now that I am re-learning piano at age 44, I realized I really have to support my upper body, relax yet support my upper arms, breath from the core to eliminate any possible tension that destroy tones in order to be able to play Mozart. Then figuring out how to connect notes into beautiful legato. Also don't forget to shape your left hand, while your right hand is busy running around! I think it takes years of technical mastery to actually play Mozart really well.

The little notes. Please share with us when you figure out how to get those little notes right, because I haven't figured them out either. (I have a teacher, but because there are always 100 problems to get help on, I haven't asked about them and I am working on other composers now) One thing I am doing these days is treat them not as little notes but practice them as if they are the fast run. So practice it slow really paying attention to relax fingers and use wrist to connect notes, and speed up tempos. With Mozart, even those have to have shapes. I am not sure if this is the right way, though.

[bernadette60614]

I'm also learning a Mozart sonata and I chose it purely for the technical challenges. In those little measures which seem to easy to sight read is a lot of fine finger work which for someone like me, who has a flat fingered approach to technique can find very daunting.

I view the various movements as technical, exercise like challenges. Perhaps this is totally incorrect, but I focus on building a very solid technical foundation before I think music and melody.

Good luck. You can do this!

[josephine93]

Thank you all for replying, and replying so fast. Your replies made me feel a lot better . I forgot to mention in my former post that I am learning the allegro part of the sonata (not the complete sonata :p). This is definitely the most difficult piece I've learnt yet . I definitely agree that Mozart looks easier than it is, but it is so gorgeous music so I am not giving up yet.

I just had piano class, and it actually went really well. I still have a long way to go, but it's getting every week a bit better.  And I have the best teacher a pianist can wish, so that helps a lot.

To reply to cwjalex:
I don't know if little notes is an actual term, but I don't know how else to call them But if you listen to the version of Daniel Barenboim on youtube you have them at; 15'', 35", 49", 56", 58", 1' 1'', 1'11",...
I don't know if that helps. They make the piece sound very elegant and regal but I find them difficult to play especially the one at 1'11".

here is the link to the video:

To reply at amytsude:
When I figure them out, I'll definitely share but It might take a while . And thank you for saying that Mozart is hard. I agree completely with your second paragraph, and I actually think the bass of this piece is very beautiful (definitely the one on page two, after the "fast part")
to reply on bernadette:
This is what I like about Mozart (and Bach), they learn you to play with the top of your fingers. Good luck with the sonatas!

[ataru074]

Don't give up... I restarted piano in my mid 30s... and I did study piano when I was a kid for several years. I did 332 as a boy and is not easy, especially the 3rd movement. It takes a lot of slow practice to get it super clear and a lot of patience to control your finger movement... stay on the key, play all the way to the bottom of the key.