Mozart A minor K310 Left Hand Trill

[daggenhurstfan]

Hello All,

I've been having trouble for a long time figuring out the best way to divide the rhythm in the first movement left hand trill section of this sonata. I'm speaking about bars 74-77

How are you guys playing the trill? My first method was 32nd notes starting on A going with the 16th notes in the right hand, but at tempo this falls apart, so i changed to (written) sixteenth notes G#-A-G# followed by those two 32nd notes, but when playing it usually just a mush  rather than a precise measurement

curious as to what you're all doing

[cwjalex]

on my score it says to start on A going with 16 notes on the right hand and 32nd notes on the left hand but i don't like the way it sounds at tempo so i think i do what you suggested and start with G#.  to me this sounds better but it's hard for me to do slowly and find it much easier to do at tempo.  

for some reason i find the section right before that with the right hand trills to be so much harder.  the right hand trills are hard for me to play at tempo but i can play the left hand trill section effortlessly at presto...and im right handed so i dunno what that's all about.  those 3 measures with the right hand trills i have probably played over and over for at least 10 hours in the last week. :\

[daggenhurstfan]

on my score it says to start on A going with 16 notes on the right hand and 32nd notes on the left hand but i don't like the way it sounds at tempo so i think i do what you suggested and start with G#.  to me this sounds better but it's hard for me to do slowly and find it much easier to do at tempo. 

for some reason i find the section right before that with the right hand trills to be so much harder.  the right hand trills are hard for me to play at tempo but i can play the left hand trill section effortlessly at presto...and im right handed so i dunno what that's all about. 

How are you playing those right hand trills? They're effortless if you start with the 3rd finger on f going (3-4-3) and landing with 2 on the e and 3 of the f sixteenth note... then landing with 1 and 2 on the c and e. It makes it into a turn rather than a trill but this works fine with the music and takes away the trouble of starting with 4 to 3.. which is less natural for the hand

[cwjalex]

How are you playing those right hand trills? They're effortless if you start with the 3rd finger on f going (3-4-3) and landing with 2 on the e and 3 of the f sixteenth note... then landing with 1 and 2 on the c and e. It makes it into a turn rather than a trill but this works fine with the music and takes away the trouble of starting with 4 to 3.. which is less natural for the hand

you mean D+F, G, F, G, F, E, F right?  yeah that's the way i do it but for some reason i have a hard time playing this at tempo but for some reason the next section with the left hand is easy for me.  i guess this is a perfect example of something that is difficult for one person that is easy for another and vice versa

[daggenhurstfan]

you mean D+F, G, F, G, F, E, F right?  yeah that's the way i do it but for some reason i have a hard time playing this at tempo but for some reason the next section with the left hand is easy for me.  i guess this is a perfect example of something that is difficult for one person that is easy for another and vice versa

No no i mean (and i think you'll find this more playable) play D and F with 1 and 3 and initiate the turn with that 3 on F as the first note so it would go (D+F, G, F, E, F, C+E)

[cwjalex]

No no i mean (and i think you'll find this more playable) play D and F with 1 and 3 and initiate the turn with that 3 on F as the first note so it would go (D+F, G, F, E, F, C+E)

does it still sound as good?  by the way do u play the left hand trills like (G#, A, G#, A, G#, F#, G#, A) ?  that's the way i do it and it sounds good.

[daggenhurstfan]

does it still sound as good?  by the way do u play the left hand trills like (G#, A, G#, A, G#, F#, G#, A) ?  that's the way i do it and it sounds good.

I think it sounds tighter and it's really the best way to play it comfortably at tempo (there isn't enough time for too many notes in the trill) A turn make the music flow unimpeded.

Likewise in the left hand i just do (G#(16), A(16), G#(16), F#(32), G#(32) | A) at tempo this sounds like a great trill

[cwjalex]

I think it sounds tighter and it's really the best way to play it comfortably at tempo (there isn't enough time for too many notes in the trill) A turn make the music flow unimpeded.

Likewise in the left hand i just do (G#(16), A(16), G#(16), F#(32), G#(32) | A) at tempo this sounds like a great trill

for me it doesn't sound right just doing a turn but maybe it's because i have already put in hundreds of hours of practicing these few measures as a trill and generally hate simplifying a score to make it easier.  ur right, there isn't enough time to time to play too many notes in a trill.  i used to add 2 more notes to the trill but when i listened back to it it sounded bad.

i wish it weren't so much more difficult to add those two extra notes to make the turn into a trill.  i have listened to a bunch of professional recordings where they don't execute the right hand trills cleanly.

also, there are several other spots where you have to fit a trill into a short space, at those times do u do a turn as well?  i do all those trills in a similar way that i described the other trills i do. like i play 2 notes then do a turn.  i think it's the minimum amount to make it a trill.  

is there anyone else here who has learned this piece that can offer input about how they play it or how they learned it?  

PS: im playing this piece for an upcoming recital.  how do u think i should handle the repeats or should i even repeat it at all?  for me there are 2 sections.  sometimes people repeat both of them, sometimes people just repeat the first part and then play till completion.  what do u think?

[daggenhurstfan]

for me it doesn't sound right just doing a turn but maybe it's because i have already put in hundreds of hours of practicing these few measures as a trill and generally hate simplifying a score to make it easier.  ur right, there isn't enough time to time to play too many notes in a trill.  i used to add 2 more notes to the trill but when i listened back to it it sounded bad.

i wish it weren't so much more difficult to add those two extra notes to make the turn into a trill.  i have listened to a bunch of professional recordings where they don't execute the right hand trills cleanly.

also, there are several other spots where you have to fit a trill into a short space, at those times do u do a turn as well?  i do all those trills in a similar way that i described the other trills i do. like i play 2 notes then do a turn.  i think it's the minimum amount to make it a trill.  

is there anyone else here who has learned this piece that can offer input about how they play it or how they learned it?  

PS: im playing this piece for an upcoming recital.  how do u think i should handle the repeats or should i even repeat it at all?  for me there are 2 sections.  sometimes people repeat both of them, sometimes people just repeat the first part and then play till completion.  what do u think?

Sorry for the late reply.

I generally don't do the repeats, but then again the people for whom I play don't mind as much as perhaps those in a formal recital space would?

Remember, ornaments (unless specifically written out) can really be left up to the performer to interpret as long as the intention is consistent throughout the piece. In this movement, I do longer trills where its appropriate (you're speaking about measure 34?) because it's a half note and there's more time, where as during the development they're quarters and at around 140 b.p.m there's simply no time to make a full trill and have it sound confident and convincing.. hence the turn.