Etudes for Ballade no 1

[piano4567]

So it's at a good speed right now but I have a little trouble with the leaping technical parts and the thirds in the right hand (using finger 2 and 4 is pretty awkward). However, the chromatic octaves are fine.
So any etudes that are beneficial to the technical parts of Chopin's ballade no 1? Thanks! 

[pianoman8]

What part of the Ballade has thirds?

[piano4567]

What part of the Ballade has thirds?

Ah apologies, I meant the perfect fourths jumping in the ascending and descending section in the right hand, after the first subject is introduced. I think the main problem is the leaping.

[pianist1976]

Ah apologies, I meant the perfect fourths jumping in the ascending and descending section in the right hand, after the first subject is introduced. I think the main problem is the leaping.

I think it's better if you tell us the bar number

[jlskiles]

I think it's better if you tell us the bar number

He's talking about bars 48-55

Chopin's Etude Op. 25 No. 5 (particularly bars 45-80) and Rachmaninoff's Etude-Tableaux Op. 39 No. 3 (particularly at bars 26-34) use the same technique.

You might also want to look at the right hand of Hanon's 55 etude from the virtuoso pianist or the "Chromatic Scale in Complete Chords of the Sixth" from the Macfarren scale and arpeggio manual. It's slightly different but it will help with evenness.

It's also possible to make an Etude out of the Grieg Piano Concerto (1st mvt) starting at the second theme on bar 31, the Second Concerto (1st mvt) by Saint-Saens starting on the "Un Poco animato" (page 9 in the Schirmer's edition), or Rachmaninoff's second concerto (3rd mvt) starting at bar 78, 82, or 84, going through bar 90.

While I was learning this part of the Ballade, I practiced it at about 120-160 bpm (on the quarter) playing it detached with excessive weight. I do that for pretty much everything to clean up blurry or uneven sections of pieces, especially with intervals like that.

[jlskiles]

He could also be talking about the technique starting at measure 216.

In that case, I would use Chopin's Etudes Op. 10 No. 10, Op. 25 No. 5, and Op. 25 No. 9, and Hanon's exercises 56-60, Liszt's 4th transcendental etude (from bars 62-79, and 159-167)

I would also look at the Chopin's other Ballades as well to get an idea of how he uses this technique.
(measures 190-196 in the second ballade, measures 165-183 in the third ballade, and measures 101-107 in the fourth ballade which is actually a slightly different technique, but still helps with the overall idea)

Again with the idea of making an etude of out a concerto, you could use the right hand part of Rachmaninoff's second piano concerto (1st mvt) starting at bar 35.

[stringoverstrung]

You can also try what Cortot suggests in his "Ballades: editions de travail":

first outline with the top note at speed (so only C Bb D Bb A D and so on). This enables you to feel the distance at speed. Let your wrist "click" into the right position.
Then take fingering 2-5 (in the first bar we are talking about G  and C in bar 47) and hold them and play Bb and d two times very fast (32nd notes) while you are holding this G-C chord and so on. This enables you to feel the right wrist movement when jumping from one position to another. Also pay attention the desired curvature of your 4th finger on the Bb's.
With the right wrist movement it is not much of a jump.

KR,
Gert Caers

[isyriel]

off topic but im 14 and i can play that part with relative ease so ...

anyways just practice the 4ths on their own without the notes in between. jump between them 2 at a time so 1st fourth to second fourth and 3rd fourth to 4th fourth and so on.  then try starting on the2nd to 3rd and 4th to ...  that way your hands (arms fingers what ever) get used to where the fourths are and will (usually) hit the right notes with (hopefully) less thought.  

this is pretty obvious but slow practice always helps.  

what could also be your problem is that the notes for your left hand are not completely under your fingers.  this tends to lead to panic and tensing up and alot of bad things which lead to you focusing on your left hand rather than your right which is moving alot more.  so practice it until you can essentially do it with your eyes closed.

beat to beat practice is ALWAYS effective.  

as for etudes im not to knowledgeable (not to say i am on above things since im 14 haha ... ) but op 10 no 1 from chopin is helpful for appeggios, chopin op 25 no. 5 the middle part is good. profovfiev op2 no 1 is GREAT for finger dexterity while playing inbetween notes.  To me, i sight read alot of things for fun so i guess im abit more exposed to technique the the likes compared to my friends.

just remember dont give up, keep practicing slowly and make sure while practicing you play the right things. dont practice mistakes or it will haunt you