Benefits of an unweighted keyboard?

[1piano4joe]

Hi all,

Are there any worthwhile benefits to using an unweighted keyboard on occasion as an ADJUNCT learning tool?

I find that I have to be super clean with my technique. If you lightly brush one of these keys they do sound. When I play in between the black keys on the narrow part of the white keys I must not brush up against a black key or it sounds since the action is so incredibly light.

Since unweighted keys/lighter action are more difficult to control then does it follow logically that if you can control these then there would be SOME applicable benefit to piano control?

Also, Chang talks about hand separate speed needing to be 1.1 to 2 times faster than hands together speed and Bernhard mentions practicing scales one handed for technique acquisition as opposed to coordination. Would an unweighted keyboard help in these matters?

In addition, is it possible that a longer and/or harder practice session is safer on one?

I have used one as an analysis tool just for trying out possible fingerings.

Yes, I know they're portable, cheap, can be used with headphones and they are better than nothing at all but that's NOT what I'm talking about.

So, does anyone here use one for a specific purpose as a COMPLEMENT to their piano. I mean we use a metronome sometimes. We use clips to hold our scores sometimes. Is there something to this that I'm missing or is it really, really bad to use one of these anytime at all?

I was just wondering, Joe.

[stringoverstrung]

I don't see how it could benefit. In the best case your practising your organ playing.
In piano playing how you are leaving the key is very important and a weighted key is an essential part of piano playing i would think.

Maybe I'm wrong but I don't see how practising something that will never happen on a real piano can help improve your playing.
If it's speed that you are after you need economy of movement, suppleness, coordination, a good bridge with your knuckles etc. The essential thing might be to align your skeleton in such a way that your muscle only needs a tiny impulse to press the (weighted) key. It's really not much not even for a weighted key.

[anima55]

I can't see an unweighted keyboard as being of any benefit at all to be honest.

[1piano4joe]

Hi all,

What if your home piano has a heavy action and you will be performing on one with a much lighter action? Would practicing the unweighted keyboard ENHANCE the transition to the much lighter action? Maybe it would seem less drastic compared to the home piano?

I don't know. It just occurred to me that it might, Joe.  

[stringoverstrung]

No i don't think it does.

Going from a heavier instrument to a light one is much better then the other way round. I used to get some lessons on a very heavy Kawai grand and playing my examinations was a walk in the park. I did have the ability to practice on the performance piano the week before however. So that is what you should aim for: get some practice time on the instrument on which you will be performing. Forget keyboards with no weighted action unless you want to pursue an organ career.

[cwjalex]

the only benefit of an unweighted keyboard is if you are 3-4 years old and the action of a real piano is damaging to your fingers.  like others have said it is much much easier to transition from a heavy action to a lighter one than vice versa.  i played on an unweighted keyboard for a few months before i got a weighted one and it took a lot of practice to adjust.  even going from a weighted keyboard to a real piano takes a lot of adjustment.  in short, i don't see anything positive about unweighted keys.

[dcstudio]

Hi all,

What if your home piano has a heavy action and you will be performing on one with a much lighter action? Would practicing the unweighted keyboard ENHANCE the transition to the much lighter action? Maybe it would seem less drastic compared to the home piano?

I don't know. It just occurred to me that it might, Joe.  

try it and see... your logic seems sound--see if it works in practice. 

For me--  the advantage to a keyboard without weighted action is that it is lighter and easier to pack up, and set up--not to mention that it is usually a lot cheaper.  It usually is better for say--organ sounds, synth pads and that kind of thing.  I have one I use for different gigs along with a fully weighted digital piano. For a student who aspires to playing classical piano... I would rank it as nearly useless...   I have had a few students who tried--they all complained about how hard it was to play my piano after practicing on their keyboard. 

There are very few non weighted keyboards made with 88 keys--most only have 76 or 61.  For a student--this can confuse the eyes...quite a bit.

[iansinclair]

Since organs have been mentioned in connexion with unweighted keyboards...

I presume that what is being referred to are stage "organs" or something of the sort.  A real, classical organ key has considerable resistance to being pressed.  This may either be from springs or counterweighting, as in electric and electro-pneumatic or straight pneumatic instruments, or it may be a combination of springs and counterweights in the case of some trackers (many older trackers are just counterweighted).  The resulting action will be very quick (if the instrument is properly made, that is!) but may be anywhere from as light as a good grand piano to far heavier, in the case of some trackers with couplers engaged.  In trackers particularly, where there may be a lot of mass to move, it is necessary to have fairly heavy touchweight to get any speed at all.  Whatever, it is a completely different feel from an unweighted key, never mind a piano.

[pianoplunker]

Hi all,

Are there any worthwhile benefits to using an unweighted keyboard on occasion as an ADJUNCT learning tool?

I find that I have to be super clean with my technique. If you lightly brush one of these keys they do sound. When I play in between the black keys on the narrow part of the white keys I must not brush up against a black key or it sounds since the action is so incredibly light.

Since unweighted keys/lighter action are more difficult to control then does it follow logically that if you can control these then there would be SOME applicable benefit to piano control?

Also, Chang talks about hand separate speed needing to be 1.1 to 2 times faster than hands together speed and Bernhard mentions practicing scales one handed for technique acquisition as opposed to coordination. Would an unweighted keyboard help in these matters?

In addition, is it possible that a longer and/or harder practice session is safer on one?

I have used one as an analysis tool just for trying out possible fingerings.

Yes, I know they're portable, cheap, can be used with headphones and they are better than nothing at all but that's NOT what I'm talking about.

So, does anyone here use one for a specific purpose as a COMPLEMENT to their piano. I mean we use a metronome sometimes. We use clips to hold our scores sometimes. Is there something to this that I'm missing or is it really, really bad to use one of these anytime at all?

I was just wondering, Joe.

Unweighted provides no advantage to overall technique. Except for maybe the possibility of practicing accuracy. Playing "acoustic" piano on unweighted keys is yucky, organ/synth ok but not  piano. unweighted keys dont lift as well so you can get tired if you dont understand that. I have experienced tired forearms on unweighted because there is extra work to lift the finger from the key to the next. Maybe there is an organ technique which would help with that. 

[bobert]

Unweighted is definitely better than nothing at all, but the biggest pitfall is not being able to correctly and consistently judge the amount of pressure to impart when transitioning back to a weighted keyboard, especially if you've been away from one for quite a while. 

However, I go back and forth between the two quite a lot these days, and I find it actually helps touch more than not.  I am now much more mindful of the force applied on a weighted keyboard and see it very clearly as something infinitely controllable.

[louispodesta]

Hi all,

Are there any worthwhile benefits to using an unweighted keyboard on occasion as an ADJUNCT learning tool?

I find that I have to be super clean with my technique. If you lightly brush one of these keys they do sound. When I play in between the black keys on the narrow part of the white keys I must not brush up against a black key or it sounds since the action is so incredibly light.

Since unweighted keys/lighter action are more difficult to control then does it follow logically that if you can control these then there would be SOME applicable benefit to piano control?

Also, Chang talks about hand separate speed needing to be 1.1 to 2 times faster than hands together speed and Bernhard mentions practicing scales one handed for technique acquisition as opposed to coordination. Would an unweighted keyboard help in these matters?

In addition, is it possible that a longer and/or harder practice session is safer on one?

I have used one as an analysis tool just for trying out possible fingerings.

Yes, I know they're portable, cheap, can be used with headphones and they are better than nothing at all but that's NOT what I'm talking about.

So, does anyone here use one for a specific purpose as a COMPLEMENT to their piano. I mean we use a metronome sometimes. We use clips to hold our scores sometimes. Is there something to this that I'm missing or is it really, really bad to use one of these anytime at all?

I was just wondering, Joe.

In direct response to your original question, there is no way in Hades that your brain will be able to correlate or translate the tactile feel of a non-resistant keyboard to that of one that does.

More pro-actively, I will share with you my long past experience regarding tactile feel.  However, if the famous Piano Street troller weighs in on this, you will have to contact me by private message if you want further advice.

My late piano teacher, Robert Weaver, taught all of his students to practice a simple five finger routine.  Starting from middle C in the right hand (with an octave below, left hand) involved playing 1-5, in both hands, up and down.

Most importantly, it had to be done with the fingers resting on the keytops, AT ALL TIMES, while playing a very soft staccato (1 staccato, 2 staccato, etc.).  Also, there is no reason that this cannot be transposed (alla Chopin) to the entire scale, as one exercise.

Parenthetically, Glenn Gould used to espouse something similar called "Tapping."  This is nowhere near the same thing.

However, what this soft staccato practice does is to develop finger independence without doing all of the abnormal, and bizarre exercises that tell you to lift up your fingers.

Earl Wild, in is memoir, talks about how Egon Petri taught him at the age of fourteen to always play and strike a key with your fingers resting on the top of the key.

Recently, I have taking this concept to a new level which is predicated on what Rachmaninoff taught his students.  However, I will leave it there for now.

So, try the five finger soft staccato routine for now (slowly) and then see how it translates to your overall tactile experience at the piano.

Accordingly, if you cannot play a particular passage in a piece, drop down an play the same passage in soft slow staccato.  If you cannot hit the notes that way, then there is no way you will be able to do it normally.

Arm weight, rotation, and the rest of it, means nothing if you do not have a normal resting tactile feel on the keys, in my opinion.

[nyiregyhazi]

In direct response to your original question, there is no way in Hades that your brain will be able to correlate or translate the tactile feel of a non-resistant keyboard to that of one that does.

More pro-actively, I will share with you my long past experience regarding tactile feel.  However, if the famous Piano Street troller weighs in on this, you will have to contact me by private message if you want further advice.

My late piano teacher, Robert Weaver, taught all of his students to practice a simple five finger routine.  Starting from middle C in the right hand (with an octave below, left hand) involved playing 1-5, in both hands, up and down.

Most importantly, it had to be done with the fingers resting on the keytops, AT ALL TIMES, while playing a very soft staccato (1 staccato, 2 staccato, etc.).  Also, there is no reason that this cannot be transposed (alla Chopin) to the entire scale, as one exercise.

Parenthetically, Glenn Gould used to espouse something similar called "Tapping."  This is nowhere near the same thing.

However, what this soft staccato practice does is to develop finger independence without doing all of the abnormal, and bizarre exercises that tell you to lift up your fingers.

Earl Wild, in is memoir, talks about how Egon Petri taught him at the age of fourteen to always play and strike a key with your fingers resting on the top of the key.

Recently, I have taking this concept to a new level which is predicated on what Rachmaninoff taught his students.  However, I will leave it there for now.

So, try the five finger soft staccato routine for now (slowly) and then see how it translates to your overall tactile experience at the piano.

Accordingly, if you cannot play a particular passage in a piece, drop down an play the same passage in soft slow staccato.  If you cannot hit the notes that way, then there is no way you will be able to do it normally.

Arm weight, rotation, and the rest of it, means nothing if you do not have a normal resting tactile feel on the keys, in my opinion.

Nothing wrong with your exercise (although I should point out the sheer importance of constantly drifting the arm slowly sideways- as most people are disastrously tense unless they do so). But if you alternate between a weighted and unweighted piano, you'll actually learn plenty. When forced to adapt quite so far, you learn more about the kind of contact with a key that is really weighted according to needs of the situation, rather than to habit. A light key makes it an even greater challenge- as it's so easy to either disconnect altogether from the resistance of keys or to depress them by accident. It's very useful to learn how to bond the fingers with any kind of action weight. The key is that the fingers are joined to the key's resistance in advance. But only by alternating does it become useful. Most people do terribly when they only have a light action. It's too difficult to be more than an occasional check that you are being sensitive to the resistance of the keys in the moment, rather than running one-size-fits all habits.

[pts1]

My late piano teacher, Robert Weaver, taught all of his students to practice a simple five finger routine.  Starting from middle C in the right hand (with an octave below, left hand) involved playing 1-5, in both hands, up and down.

Louis

Your entire comment is excellent and right on the money.

This method is what separates professional level technique from the amateur.

Many, many years ago I had a Japanese teacher who followed this exact same exercise (except she used E, F#, G#, A#, C... Chopin's basic positioin)

Then she added to it, doing two quick soft repetitions per finger, then 3, 4, 5 6 and so forth. Then she did trills in a similar manner all fingers.. one repetition, 2, 3, 4 and so forth.

All this was while keeping the hand, wrist, arm supple and flexible, not forcing the key but doing the play with fingers only using intrinsic muscles.

I'd be interested in hearing your Rachmanioff anecdote about his instruction to his students.

[timothy42b]

Since organs have been mentioned in connexion with unweighted keyboards...

I presume that what is being referred to are stage "organs" or something of the sort.  A real, classical organ key has considerable resistance to being pressed. 

Trackers especially.  The digital organs I've played in a number of churches, not so much.

However, his point about accuracy is correct.  When I started playing a bit of organ that was the first thing I noticed.  You didn't have to hit a key hard to play the note loud, just had to brush the edge of it. 

No pedal, either, relax your finger and the note stops a bit more abruptly than I wanted, had to learn to add some finger legato.