There's "whining" and then there's Whining.

[pts1]

But what you write is simply not true

Really?

So you are not 38 years old? That is NOT true?

[m1469]

.

[ahinton]

What facts and public nudity have I somehow wrongly given?

I didn't suggest that you were or are "wrong"; my expression "public nudity" is also not to be taken literally but to identify when someone tells a great deal about themselves on a public forum, Twitter, Facebook or wherever else - do you not perceive some potential dangers inherent in that?

1.  By occupation I am a music teacher, privately and at a school.  Wouldn't that make this forum a somewhat logical place for me to be?

Of course - but have I suggested otherwise?

2.  I am a singer and a pianist.  Again, not earth shattering info, especially given the forum is meant for pianists.

Sure - no problem.

3.  It has been financially difficult to maintain a musical life as a late starter and within a severe recession, and that fact has been life altering for me.

And for many others, I do not doubt.

4.  Lately I have been seriously questioning the job of teaching music and the roles that both music itself and teaching it have within the world, ultimately hoping to find new inspiration and insight.

OK - again, no problem; I don't teach, but I have no reason to doubt that people who do so may well find themselves facing up to those kinds of questions de temps en temps.

5.  I like to garden (I posted about that before).

So do many - no problem there.

6.  I've posted under my real name before (which you supposedly do yourself)

I know you did - and there's no "supposedly" about my doing the same; indeed, I've always done it.

What else?  A few odd stories about strange experiences I've had in other jobs?  In 10 years of being here among acquaintances, we are all supposed to be robots to each other?

Did I suggest anything of that kind?

 There are other piano forums online where far more is known about each member there, and they even organize in person gatherings and projects with one another.  I posted at each a couple of times near the same era I found this forum and started posting here.  I'd say this place is pretty far from being like those.  

I think that, to appreciate the kinds of thing to which I sought to refer, you would need to review some of your posts (especially some of the lengthier ones) and decide for yourself to what extent their contents do and do not fall within the parameters you outline above.

All that said, I described a post by someone else as "out of order" and I still believe that it was - pretty offensively so, indeed.

Best,

Alistair

[hardy_practice]

I think the only real difference is that in the first world, you get arrested and/or fined for doing it. Maybe the third world isn't so bad after all?

No.  The difference is in the first world you have toilets.

[ahinton]

Allistair doesn't think I should keep giving her lessons

Where and when did I say that? And it's Alistair, by the way, not Allistair.

Best,

Alistair

[pts1]

Dear m1469

My revealing your true age was indeed a friendly act!

It was EASILY gained by me using your real name which you have posted ALL OVER the internet.

Public records don't lie, and they are PUBLIC if one provides the keys to open them!!! GET IT??

If I -- who has no malice toward you, and who is not particularly skilled with computers and the internet -- can find more information about you AND YOUR FAMILY than you can possibly imagine, why would you not think some criminal type couldn't?

Do you not understand this?

[m1469]

.

[timothy42b]

Allistair doesn't think I should keep giving her lessons.... but has she learned them?

MAYLA, HAVE YOU LEARNED ANYTHING?

So.  You've given her lessons a few hundred times.  You perceive that she's learned nothing.  You conclude you should just continue giving her lessons.

Which one of you is failing to learn from experience?  

(For those of you who are church goers, you must have noticed Jesus teaches in parables, and then explains them.  Always.  Not once are his listeners smart enough to get the point without the explanation.  Must have frustrated the heck out of him.)  

[m1469]

.

[timothy42b]

I really miss Susan.

[thalbergmad]

Yeh, me too.

I kinda miss the tambo banging.

Thal

[pts1]

I really miss Susan

Who was Susan and why do you miss her?


PS

Yes, I can't seem to help myself... I'm trying to teach m1469 to fish

[timothy42b]

Who was Susan and why do you miss her?


PS

Yes, I can't seem to help myself... I'm trying to teach m1469 to fish

<puts on deep redneck accent>  you not from around heah, ah you? 

Analyze this: how does m1469 trap you into deep exchanges so effortlessly, for which resistance is futile?  You (and I mean you personally) can no more walk away from m1469 than you can look away from a train wreck. 

The good natured, deeply religious, sincerely crazy piannistimmo (aka Susan) was even better at it. 

[thalbergmad]

How I long for the 6,000 year old Grand Canyon type posts.

Thal

[pts1]

Dear m1469

Let me rephrase.... perhaps YOU have not plastered your name and face all over the internet, but it is nevertheless "out there".

A search on your real name pulls up over 800,000 hits

Granted there are others out there with your name, but its unusual.

A search with your real name in your state and we get a lowly 171,000

If you click on images, guess who pops up?

Now, you can't undo this, but you CAN limit personal details so you rise from low hanging fruit to higher hanging fruit.

Its all about probabilities.

Now imagine someone with the tenacity and computer intellect of Nyiregyhazi....

Egads.... someone like that could make fruit salad of you.

[timothy42b]

Now imagine someone with the tenacity and computer intellect of Nyiregyhazi....

Egads.... someone like that could make fruit salad of you.

He may have done so.

But his posts are so long and verbose there is no case on record of anyone actually reading one in entirety, so we will never know. 

[timothy42b]

How I long for the 6,000 year old Grand Canyon type posts.

Thal

Isn't there a thread somewhere about our favorite Susan posts? 

[pts1]

Timothy42b

Yes, I am helpless as was Odysseus to m1469's Siren Song, strapped to the bobbing mast of this good ship forum, helpless to do anything but lust... lust for her and thoughts of writhing wantonly on the beach with her, were it not for these bindings that hold me back, lashed here by Mistress m1469 with her Dominant Cadence of teasing and temptation.

So.... what's new with you?

(I notice you're enjoying your "Bread and Circuses" vantage point, my gutting and unrepentant mixing of metaphors notwithstanding)

Susan sounds wonderful, and a match between her and m1469 would've been something to behold.

(I'd be right there in the peanut gallery with you popcorn and wine in hand as maidens' blood ran hot and fertile on the Coliseum floor.  

[ahinton]

Perhaps it would just be best for them to be erased!

Decisions or otherwise on that would and should be your sole prerogative!

Best,

Alistair

[hardy_practice]

He may have done so.

But his posts are so long and verbose there is no case on record of anyone actually reading one in entirety, so we will never know.  

I just go for the first line. (Sorry, wrong thread!)

[keypeg]

What does this thread have to do with teaching?

[hardy_practice]

What does this thread have to do with teaching?

It's about how tedious it can be once the rose tinted glasses get knocked off.

[m1469]

.  

[ahinton]

I would wish that actual friendships that I may have ever developed at this forum are deeper than a supposed stranger popping in to "teach me a lesson" the hard way

Well, whilst I appreciate that you are not directing this at me, I ought perhaps - for the record and for the avoidance of doubt (as the lawyers say) - to reiterate that i do not teach and, accordingly, I'm not trying to teach you anything.

Best,

Alistair

[hardy_practice]

 Of course, I would wish that actual friendships that I may have ever developed at this forum are deeper than a supposed stranger popping in to "teach me a lesson" the hard way,

Isn't that what is called 'tough love' in the US?

[timothy42b]

Yes, you should rephrase it and that is part of the point.  Those are two different things

 

Yes, there are two things (at least) not being cleanly separated.

One is whether you share objective practical details that may or may not expose you to some risk, like posting your credit card or social security number (if you are a US citizen) or passport number. 

While some people become concerned about these, there is no emotional content to them.  Do you drive Ford or Chevrolet?  Meaningless. 

People know something about you when you share hopes, dreams, fears, philosophical ramblings, mystical musings, sharply analyzed intellectual concepts, wacko flights of fantasy, compassionate reaching out, vicious rebuttals.

It is possible you do some of these.  <g>

I was actually extremely selective when it came to involving myself here

,

I would agree but not for the reason you think. 

[m1469]

.  

[timothy42b]

At this point, I can narrow pretty much all of my decision to be involved here and in the ways that I have been (including other, potent interactions with individuals over the years), to a few key points.    

Of course you can.  But that doesn't mean you are correct about those key points.  You don't have a lot of perspective.

Whether you or anybody else could accurately do the same of me (I am not asking, and the quality of interaction speaks louder than words) would be more representative of who I actually am or aim to be than any of the things that you listed above, by themselves or as a group, though they point.

That didn't parse, did it?  You didn't communicate what you intended. 

Whether we can understand you from what you share depends greatly on how much you share and how adept we are at listening.  There is no doubt you share a lot, for whatever reasons.

Whether that assessment corresponds with your own depends on how well you know yourself.  It would appear you believe you know yourself well but not all of us would agree. 

I don't see a lot of evidence you understand others here very well.  My working hypothesis is that this is because your focus is pretty much exclusively on yourself.  That is likely to lead to your conclusion that we know you as little as you know us, and that most people don't know others on a forum very well.  We are inclined to judge from our own experiences.  In this case that would be wrong.

[m1469]

.  

[keypeg]

Keypeg: What does this thread have to do with teaching?
It's about how tedious it can be once the rose tinted glasses get knocked off.

It starts as a mock imitation of another person's thread, as a criticism, showing those ideas in a different light.  There's still a bit involving teaching.  But above all it is about a member, examining that member in ways that go way beyond teaching - the one about age and childbearing years being the most blatant.  It does not seem remotely related to teaching.

This thread is meant for teachers discussing teaching, teaching issues, and students who have their foot quite well in the door and who are interested in the same.  Is this about teaching?  If so, how so?

In the thread that this one sprang out of in a kind of imitation, reference is made to me and the events of a few years ago.  That, in fact, does involve teaching, but not necessarily in the way it was presented.  Fortunately that part is missing from this thread.

I guess I'm surprised at how this thread has been evolving.  Surely questions about how much personal information you should make accessible on the Internet, or whether women should consider their childbearing years, would be topics for discussion in the off topic sections rather than in a teacher section ..... unless they are in fact relevant to teaching.

[hardy_practice]

Why would you read the bits that aren't about teaching?  I didn't.

[keypeg]

Why would you read the bits that aren't about teaching?  I didn't.

First, I was considering the forum and its members as a whole, not just what I would want to read personally.  It's the teacher forum, about teaching.

Re: "I didn't" - in fact, you did.     Your posts in this thread involve:
- American politics (the "Black" president thing)
- a "New Age" response to a deleted post
- two responses involving the use of toilets
- "tough love" in terms of a kind of "intervention" happening here in matters that do not involve teaching.

= bits not about teaching.

Again toilets, choices by women of childbearing age in regards to having children, American political issues, internet usage - these are not teaching-related topics.  The children thing might be as in "How do you balance taking care of children while furthering your career as a musician and pedagog?" so that's a gray area.

[pts1]

As a few of you have noted, this thread started as a parody of m1469's lenghty, self-serving, self-pitying rant entitled: There's "teaching" and then there's Teaching.

That rambling,  wallowing egocentric diatribe, really has nothing to do with teaching any more than this thread does.... though there are things to be learned.

Unless the "facts" are beneficial to m1469, then they are always mere opinion or twisted attempts at discrediting her.

Long ago she went on a "Baby? Or my career?" kind of musing her age her ticking clock -- which she will deny -- but its out there and also has nothing to do with the piano or teaching and again reveals intimate details of her life.

(one should never be surprised when m1469 denies something.... she can literally say it in one part of a thread and then claim she never said it in a subsequent part of the same thread..)

For m1469, Facts are Temporary, always being nibbled away by time.

Its my view that if someone brings up a topic and expounds on it in a public way, then it seems to invite participation by and with the members of that public venue -- in this case, this forum.

The consequences of this -- erosion of one's anonymity -- don't seem to bother her other than she doesn't want to admit she is the author of this very "breaking down".

Google her real name and you'll get hundreds of thousands of hits, including her age of 38, and many other things I shall not mention. She's posted her real name here many times, so its no secret.

She really can't have it both ways... i.e. complain about her personal information being out there (and here) when she is the one who disseminates it, either directly, obliquely or in piece meal.

The single thing that is so irksome -- and great material for parody -- is that she is congenitally incapable of simple honesty.

Caught in a lie -- its never her fault. The "Keypeg Incident" for instance... no confession or apology as if it ever happened.

Instead of admitting her mistake, she will double and triple down on it in an attempt to fold it into the muck of ditzy musings and eccentric ramblings and blame -- its so important to get one's truth chakras aligned with past lives channeled with proper harmony into the present thin and billowing gossamer veil of what some mis-characterize as "reality", you see.
 

m1469 says -- Namaste!

[hardy_practice]

First, I was considering the forum and its members as a whole, not just what I would want to read personally.  It's the teacher forum, about teaching.

Re: "I didn't" - in fact, you did.    

In skimming through I picked up the odd non-teaching thing but no one is being forced to read anything non-teaching!

[ahinton]

As a few of you have noted, this thread started as a parody of m1469's lenghty, self-serving, self-pitying rant entitled: There's "teaching" and then there's Teaching.

That rambling,  wallowing egocentric diatribe, really has nothing to do with teaching any more than this thread does.... though there are things to be learned.

Unless the "facts" are beneficial to m1469, then they are always mere opinion or twisted attempts at discrediting her.

Long ago she went on a "Baby? Or my career?" kind of musing her age her ticking clock -- which she will deny -- but its out there and also has nothing to do with the piano or teaching and again reveals intimate details of her life.

(one should never be surprised when m1469 denies something.... she can literally say it in one part of a thread and then claim she never said it in a subsequent part of the same thread..)

For m1469, Facts are Temporary, always being nibbled away by time.

Its my view that if someone brings up a topic and expounds on it in a public way, then it seems to invite participation by and with the members of that public venue -- in this case, this forum.

The consequences of this -- erosion of one's anonymity -- don't seem to bother her other than she doesn't want to admit she is the author of this very "breaking down".

Google her real name and you'll get hundreds of thousands of hits, including her age of 38, and many other things I shall not mention. She's posted her real name here many times, so its no secret.

She really can't have it both ways... i.e. complain about her personal information being out there (and here) when she is the one who disseminates it, either directly, obliquely or in piece meal.

The single thing that is so irksome -- and great material for parody -- is that she is congenitally incapable of simple honesty.

Caught in a lie -- its never her fault. The "Keypeg Incident" for instance... no confession or apology as if it ever happened.

Instead of admitting her mistake, she will double and triple down on it in an attempt to fold it into the muck of ditzy musings and eccentric ramblings and blame -- its so important to get one's truth chakras aligned with past lives channeled with proper harmony into the present thin and billowing gossamer veil of what some mis-characterize as "reality", you see.
 

m1469 says -- Namaste!

Since it might not seem especially unreasonable to question what proportion of the above is about teaching and/or teaching-related issues and what proportion about m1469, the answer might well lead some to conclude that you may be falling into a trap of your own making...

Best,

Alistair

[hardy_practice]

Also, I only read short posts.  I advise others to do the same.

[timothy42b]

Also, I only read short posts.  I advise others to do the same.

+

[m1469]

.  

[ahinton]

It can be pretty scary, for many people, to put something into the world that actually says something and is a reflection of all that they care about in life and which came from their heart, exactly because it can be carelessly and rudely criticized and mistreated/represented by others.  Well, it's probably safe to assume that it just WILL be carelessly and rudely criticized by others.  But just because the individual ends up putting it out there anyway, doesn't mean they are actually inviting somebody else's mocking and ridicule.  That is the other person's decision, and it's up to any individual coming across it to either dwell on the mocking and ridicule side of it (probably for similar reasons as the person doing the ridicule) or to look to what is being ridiculed as it actually comes from the person who shared part of themselves with another.  

It's obviously pretty telling if individuals tend towards pts and pts' posts about me vs. who and what I actually am and what I am saying.

Maybe, but to what extent can anyone be certain that this is the case? To begin with, think what proportion of the entire forum membership has contributed anything at all to this thead but at the same time how much greater a proportion thereof might have read all or some of it?

Best,

Alistair

[jpahmad]

I have had many phases over the years.  What you describe above, I do not have the energy for at the moment, and do not get paid enough to somehow foster that kind of energy into my life from nowhere.  I simply do not currently have it in me to make people something they are not.  And, from where I stand, most of it seems extremely unrealistic unless immersed in a culture that already largely embraces this attitude.  What you are talking about goes deeper than piano lessons and I run into walls when approaching it that way, too.  

m1469, how do you expect to be a successful teacher if you don't have the energy to do certain things that will improve the quality of education for your students?

Also, it is realistic.  I am telling you it works.  This is not mindless theory I'm spewing out.  I have empirical evidence from my own students.  I think you do have to re-visit your basic assumptions about children and the parents who raise them. 

What are you assumptions(expectations) may I ask? 

It seems to me that you never really wanted to be a teacher in the first place.  If this is the case, then I completely understand why you don't want to put in the effort.

[timothy42b]

It seems to me that you never really wanted to be a teacher in the first place.  If this is the case, then I completely understand why you don't want to put in the effort.

Remember though that while most of the teachers here have individual students, m1469 is that rare exception, a classroom teacher for the most part.  That does present some different challenges. 

[hardy_practice]

Remember though that while most of the teachers here have individual students, m1469 is that rare exception, a classroom teacher for the most part.  That does present some different challenges.  

Tell me about it.

[timothy42b]

It can be pretty scary, for many people, to put something into the world that actually says something and is a reflection of all that they care about in life and which came from their heart, exactly because it can be carelessly and rudely criticized and mistreated/represented by others.  

Clearly this happens, both in general and specifically to you.

However it also happens that people respond with great care and with no intent to be rude, and you (both the general you and the specific m1469 you) reject it as careless and rude, when in fact it is not.  There are more people here who are kind than rude.  

[m1469]

.

[goldentone]

Also, I only read short posts.  I advise others to do the same.

Or you could become a photo reader.

[jpahmad]

Wait a second, m1469 you teach groups?  Seriously?  I didn't know it was actually possible to seriously teach anybody anything in a group setting.  No wonder you're frustrated.  Who told you it was a good idea to teach group piano?

[timothy42b]

I and my music are a work in progress.  I know there are certain things that I can do, but there is more that I could do given time and the resources to focus on it.  Even if I put my best work out into the world today, in 20 years I might wish I could adjust it,

Hah!  Your age is showing.

This isn't a problem for me.  At my age, in 20 years..............well, pretty unlikely I'll care.  <g> 

It is expensive though, buying milk a quart at a time, takes more gas to run to the store multiple times, and since I'm at the point I only fill the tank half full................................

[ahinton]

Do you actually know how many people have listened to your music?  Do you actually know everything, good or bad, they have thought about it?  No.  But it's out there, and to be blunt, people are either letting it collect dust on the shelf or they are finding a reason to listen to it.  Or they could even tear it apart, publicly.  What would be your choices about all of that at that point?  And even if it were publicly praised, would you ultimately rather people listen to the words people say about it and you, good or bad, or listen to your music itself and see what they discover by doing so?

Interesting points all. Let's take them one at a time. No, no composer can possibly know how many people may have listened to his/her music. What anyone does with mine or anyone else's once it is, as you say, "out there" is each such listener's prerogative, be they instrumentalist/singer/conductor/composer or lay listener; people listen and respond in their own ways and that's just as it should be. I would rather people just listen to what I've done and make what they will or won't of it; once I've done my stuff, it's out of my hands except to the extent that I might want to revise this or that (although this has rarely happened). OK, bad performances can risk screwing some of that up but, fortunately, I've been very lucky in having few of those.

I and my music are a work in progress.  I know there are certain things that I can do, but there is more that I could do given time and the resources to focus on it.  Even if I put my best work out into the world today, in 20 years I might wish I could adjust it, or maybe I would be surprised and find something I didn't hear when I initially put it out.  My guess is that's how that goes with that kind of thing.  What I have done before now is the best I could do under the circumstances I was in and under the belief systems about myself and the world that I held.  Does it mean I should never have shown what matters to me at any one point in time before now?  What would make now the magic time, vs. 15 years from now? People are always showing *something* about themselves.

Many things are a "work in progress". Showing something of oneself in music and doing so in other ways are, however, very different phenomena, for all that they might have certain common origins; in those other ways, it depends and matters how, when and before whom you do it whereas, when you put out your own music, listeners still know next to nothing of what gave rise to it or of the persona that thought it up - this is where there is a vast difference between on the one hand exposing one's persona in words and providing all manner of details about what might once have been one's private life and, on the other, letting out the music that one's written which says "conclude what you may about this in terms of my private life if you've noting better to do but you'll stand a far better chance of getting more out of it if you just absorb what the music conveys to you". I do believe very much in the laying bare of emotions in what I do but, at least as it's in music, people cannot readily or reliably identify specific things from it that can be translated into non-musical impressions that wll automatically be shared by all others, so it's a quite different ball game from telling people all about things in words on a forum, Twitter, Facebook or wherever; I could not in any case account in words for those emotions and, if I could, I'd probably write plays and/or poetry instead.

Regarding anything I have formerly shared here, I am still deciding on particulars, but I have spoken from my heart in this post here, and it is something that I believe in.  A person could pick it apart and try to make me feel self conscious about this post, too.  And there may be people reading it right now that I will never, ever know what they are thinking about it.  That is part of the deal.

I'm not seeking to pick anything apart, any more than I'm aiming to "teach" you something here; as long as you recognise and understand that, it's fine.

Best,

Alistair

[m1469]

.

[pts1]

But, even then, my aim has never been to whine, my aim has not even actually been for attention in and of itself, but rather to express something that needed to be expressed (deeper than words themselves) and for which I did not believe I could find any other way - for the purpose of moving OUT of it, and ultimately to get out of a place of need and emergency, and in to a place of being able to vitally give

                        

m1469

I do not see you ever getting out of this place. You cannot express something deeper than words themselves since your words come from a place that is the deepest part of your heart and your soul or otherwise you would never say them in the first place since this would be a betrayal of your very deepest essence and reason for being which is to transform mere vitality of the senses into vital giving.

Continue on in your very special work in progress, as we can see in the representation in the drawing above "HOUSE OF MAYLA -- WORK IN PROGRESS"