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Topic: Can't afford a teacher, but willing to work my butt off to learn  (Read 3077 times)

Offline positivity

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So recently I have been given the opportunity to practice up to 6 hours a day and I figured I'd start to practice my piano the proper way. The problem is, I can't afford a teacher but I am highly motivated to learn. I understand basic scales such as major, minor(harmonic/melodic). I also understand basic chord formations such as thirds/fifths/6ths/7ths (I understand them, but when actually putting it down to write I can't put them to proper use.)

I was hoping someone here would be kind enough to direct me to proper exercises, youtube channel(s) or something along the lines of what a good piano teacher's guide book(?) would be. Such as where do I start, where do I go after I learn previous lesson, etc.

Much thanks to anyone that responds!

I forgot to add, I have access to multiple theory books but the problem is I don't know where to start! I feel like jumping into a random book isn't the best idea since it might be teaching something much more advanced, or assume I already know certain skills before starting.

Offline stringoverstrung

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Re: Can't afford a teacher, but willing to work my butt off to learn
Reply #1 on: November 11, 2014, 02:16:50 AM
Dear Positivity,

it's great to have such positive ambitions. As far as theory is concerned, I'm afraid i cannot help you. I learned music theory as a child and for me it is more or less a given.
As far as piano is concerned, I'm afraid I cannot help you either! Why not? Because you are asking to condense 300 years of piano practice in a mail ;D . However I understand your question so here are some tips. Use them at your own risk.  :P

For the piano itself, everything depends on what your end goal is. Now in any case you could try to do it the best you can.

1) So first thing is to have correct posture. That you can actually learn from a video i guess.
To have an understanding of what it is about you could watch
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fe57D8HxuvU

Now at the end she is a bit too stiff so it is always a good idea to watch how the greats do it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zf3xHZrcjPg
He does a lot of things right but notice at the end (applause) he doesn't seem satisfied  >:(

2) Learn to relax your arms and your shoulders. Sit with your nose (it should be the middle of your body) in the middle of the keyboard. Now what is the middle of your keyboard?(hint: it is not the C). Right it is the D. (symmetrical key configuration from the D).

3) Try to elongate your spine (at least mentally). Your arms are connected to your shoulders and your shoulders are carried by your spine and the back muscles. So it is important to understand that you are playing piano with your fingers but that every part from your finger to your bottom plays a part.  For now relax your arms and especially your wrist. Your head should be "floating" on your spine.


4) Correct positioning of the hand. (knuckles and fingers) Now this is very hard to explain in text and I am certainly no expert so again watch the video of Arturo. Although you will see what you are aiming for it is actually quite impossible to learn something from it. That is because piano playing is above all a thing of the sensory and nervous system. So it needs to "feel" right. You will notice that when you press down a finger other fingers might do things you don't expect. This is because the hand is primarily designed to grasp things (= use all fingers together). this is what we do as a baby!  So in a sense piano playing is "unlearning" all the movements that you don't need. This means what you do should feel effortless. One important things is to learn to use your fingers in correct "interdependence". In practice in the beginning it is a good idea to keep your fingers that are not playing close to the keys (and relaxed). Important is also to have an active attack of the key. your finger should not passively fall on the key but describe a sort circular motion.
Watch this ( but certainly not imitate this!!!) at 0:37 so you get an idea of what i mean with circular motion of the finger instead of hitting.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SzOl_kyE65A
Again don't imitate this (wrist too low etc).

5) What to practice?  Always go for music of high quality. You can do scales but it is more fun to learn an actual high quality piece with scale runs in it. At the end you are able to play scales and a nice piece of music! Play music that you like. So some of your 6 hours in the beginning you should use to educate yourself to what you actually like!

6) How to practice?
For this search in the forum for "Bernhard". There is also a rather controversial free online book but it has some merits and it is easy to understand if you don't have any pianistic background. Just be aware that it was written by a piano layman and that it is not the holy bible. But it has some nice tricks.
https://www.pianopractice.org/
https://www.sinerj.org/~loyer/fopp/fopp.html

Now what Bernhard says at this forum you can consider as the the holy scripture. He is a professional piano teacher i believe.

7) What to pay attention to?
If you watch a piano lesson video always compare the technique of the teacher to a really great performer. It will give you an idea if he/she knows what she is talking about. Be very sceptical in the beginning.

8) What not to do?
* DON'T PLAY if you feel pain or too much fatigue in your hand.
* DON'T PLAY with your shoulders pulled up (= not relaxed).
* DON'T  TRY TO PLAY VERY VERY FAST in the beginning to the point that you loose control and stiffen up.
* DON'T PLAY with a stiff wrist!
* DON'T PLAY too loud. You will notice that one of the hardest things on a piano is to play chords softly and together. Listen very carefully to yourself. How do you sound? is your chord together?
* NEVER HIT the piano. A big sound comes from speed in the fingers and to certain extent arm weight but in general most beginners tend to hit the piano too much. You will notice that if you drop your arm and hand from a small height (e.g. 10 cm) without using muscular effort onto a key this will already give a big sound.
* DON'T THINK you can learn to play well from reading mails like this. Try to show what you are doing to people who are knowledgeable. They will give you advice. It is important to have a feedback loop so that someone can correct you when you are making mistakes. One option is to post a video in the audition room and ask for help.
Please note that I am not a professional but an amateur but I thought I might as well share some insights that I have learned over the years playing as a true amateur loving music and the piano in particular.

So remember: handle your piano and music with care because every masterpiece that you will learn is a treasure that will stay with you for the rest of your life.

Offline positivity

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Re: Can't afford a teacher, but willing to work my butt off to learn
Reply #2 on: November 11, 2014, 05:06:54 AM
-stringoverstrung

Alright there's a lot of information here that completely slipped my mind such as properly playing the piano. I do tend to smash on them a bit so i'll watch the videos you supplied. As for theory and such I guess i'll lurk around the board to see what others have talked about and I'll be sure to look out for any bernhard posts/threads (also just use my common sense I guess haha).

Anyways I greatly appreciate you putting thought into your response and there's a couple pieces that have popped into my mind as to what to learn.

Thanks!!! :)

Offline bronnestam

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Re: Can't afford a teacher, but willing to work my butt off to learn
Reply #3 on: November 11, 2014, 07:31:51 AM
https://www.practisingthepiano.com/
An excellent resource. I highly recommend that you buy the material, you will not regret it. The advice given here are not just very good for learning, they also make practice more fun an variable.

https://vimeo.com/user29797356/videos
Concert pianist in the elite division shares some basic advice on posture etcetera. You can be sure he knows what he is talking about.

Bach's Inventions. You can access them for free here at Pianostreet. Good practice, good learning material AND lovely music as well.

One thing I did not know when I decided to pick up piano playing again, and to do it with ambition, was that it was that easy to get injuries.  :(  Once you have found out how fun it is to practice and to learn, you sometimes are too impatient to pay attention to ergonomics etcetera. And that may cost you A LOT - sometimes too much. I also heard a whole bunch of young pianists with the sad attitude of "this will not happen to me, I'm too good to get injured". Well, they are all wrong, I can tell you that! What's the point in investing a fortune in a good piano, if you don't take proper care of the most essential part of the instrument - your body? 
Good ergonomics is also necessary for mastering certain technical skills, so work a lot with this.

Finally ...
https://www.pianochord.com/

The best chord resource I've seen so far on Internet.

Offline indianajo

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Re: Can't afford a teacher, but willing to work my butt off to learn
Reply #4 on: November 11, 2014, 12:44:13 PM
Like green vegatables, exercise books are a concentrated course in good practice.  You'll run into finger independence exercises, wrist and arm rotation exercises, jumps, runs, trills, etc etc.  
I started on Schmitt which are rudimentary but great on developing finger independence.  I had a real problem with that due to an injured finger (third pad cut off by a folding chair).  I did these for a year.  
My pro teacher ran me through Edna Mae Berman books 1-5 then Czerny school of Velocity. This was over six years.
Some people like Hanon exercises.  I saw a Hanon book last week at Salvation Army, it seems to be more condensed than EMB.  
If you don't know about wrist rotation and arm rotation, well that is why occasionally you need a teacher.  Same with posture, there are 50 things you can do wrong and a good teacher will spot them.  I noticed the previous poster didn't say anything about wrist held straight and arms dropping from the shoulders to the hands, with fingers curved naturally.  If you don't see this, look in an ergonomics book about typing, bent wrists can cause carpal tunnel syndrome on either piano or typewriter.  Don't look at Horowitz, he was a great artist but his hand position was all wrong, IMHO. Same with back and neck held straight, this is important for all parts of life, not just sitting at a piano.  If you can't reach the keyboard this way because you are too tall, change the bench.  Mother popped a disk in her neck typing one day with bad posture because her (new) employer had her typing at a library table with a random chair, instead of at a desk with the chair at the right height.  
I suggest a teacher every three months or so is necessary the first few years to correct incorrect physical habits.  Not every week, one can listen to pieces on the internet now and correct ones performance in comparison to that.  
At age 64 there is no way I can practice over two hours a day due to tendon and joint problems,. Enjoy your six hours a day while you can.  
I was run through a "programmed learning" theory course, by my teacher, but those books were thrown away when I went to college so I don't know the title anymore.  A dip into popular music and lead sheets with a melody and chord chart is a shock to most classical music students, I highly recommend it. My teacher wouldn't help me with this world even when I asked, age 12.  She just disparaged pop music, but that is in fact where the money is in piano performance for someone who is not one of the fifty best in the world performers. 
Have fun.

Offline stringoverstrung

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Re: Can't afford a teacher, but willing to work my butt off to learn
Reply #5 on: November 11, 2014, 06:27:48 PM
 Don't look at Horowitz, he was a great artist but his hand position was all wrong, IMHO.

Yes you are right. I shouldn't have put it in there. It was the only slow motion i could find however.
It probably does more bad then good watching this so disregard this link :-X

Offline falala

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Re: Can't afford a teacher, but willing to work my butt off to learn
Reply #6 on: November 12, 2014, 06:16:42 PM
This doesn't make sense.

Surely if you have six hours a day free to devote to piano, the logical thing is to spend a few hours a week of those doing an additional part-time job to earn the money to pay for a teacher. Doing that, getting a good teacher and practising, say, an average of five hours a day, will result in far more progress than trying to do it unguided with a few extra hours.

If you're willing to work your butt off then work your butt off - on the things that will actually make the difference and work. Work your butt off doing a saturday job somewhere and hey presto - problem solved, and you still have the rest of the week to practise.

If you're not at a very advanced stage already, I don't see how you can seriously improve your technique without lessons. Some things to do with theory, improvisation etc. maybe. But developing the core physical approach to the instrument doesn't work that way.

Offline bernadette60614

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Re: Can't afford a teacher, but willing to work my butt off to learn
Reply #7 on: November 12, 2014, 10:50:38 PM
I don't know where you live and what your access might be, but a good teacher is an investment.

I took years of lessons from 12 to 18 and played such pieces as the Beethoven Moonlight Sonata, Liszt Hungarian Rhapsody No. 6 and I thought I was reasonably good.  It wasn't until I began taking lessons with a well trained piano teacher (not someone who played piano well, but someone who had been educated to teacher piano) that I realized that my posture was off, I had no sense of hand position, I was indifferent to detail and nuance and while I could sure play loud and fast...I wasn't making music.

Find a well trained, experienced teacher...it is a great investment.
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