Trills

[dorjuanhoop]

I am working on a Baroque piece by John Blow (C major) .  I know how to play trills, but this is a little different.  One measure has two  half notes, one top of the other, a B and D, with a trill sign over it.  How does one trill this?  I've never seen a trill over two notes and don't know how to interpret this. 

[iansinclair]

In an ideal world, you would trill both notes, starting (since it is Baroque) on the upper note (C or C# and E or D#, depending on the key), and keeping in time -- probably eighth notes.

And no, it's not as easy as it sounds...

[liszt1022]

3rd measure:
https://conquest.imslp.info/files/imglnks/usimg/d/d8/IMSLP125901-WIMA.e4ae-Blow_Prelude_C.pdf

I would probably play four 16ths-
EC  DB  EC  DB and then tie the last DB into quarter notes for beat 4.

Maybe I'd hold onto the B as a half note and play EDED in 16ths, then tie that D to a quarter note on beat 4.

Then do the same idea in measure 5.

[j_menz]

Given the edition, I would read it as a mordent and apply it to the upper note only. 

So, in that third measure, hold the B and play DED with the first two (DE) as demisemiquavers.

[dorjuanhoop]

Thank you all for your help.  It's a lot to digest, and none of it sound easy, but it's an answer, and I appreciate it.  I thought for a while it might be a mistake but guess not. 

[liszt1022]

I just remembered that the same thing came up in one of my Scarlatti sonatas years back, and I did trill both notes in the manner I suggested first, at request of my teacher. I'm not a Baroque ornamentation expert, so feel free to disregard. Still, I would like to see the autograph MS to see if John Blow used different marks for ornamentation that aren't reflected in the computerized typesetting. In any case, I don't think he meant for it to be an issue 300 years later.

[dorjuanhoop]

Thank you for taking the time to help.  Your ideas are useful and doable (I think).  I wonder, too, what the original manuscript shows and am going to do a little research. 

[louispodesta]

I am working on a Baroque piece by John Blow (C major) .  I know how to play trills, but this is a little different.  One measure has two  half notes, one top of the other, a B and D, with a trill sign over it.  How does one trill this?  I've never seen a trill over two notes and don't know how to interpret this. 

In the International Edition of the "Pieces De Clavecin," (Jean-Philippe Rameau), on page 4 ""Note for the execution of embellishments," it lists the name of the various embellishments, and then how they are to be executed.  It contains your embellishment which is listed as "Arpegement simple," and also "Arpegement figure."

If someone can pull up this page and post it, I would be most grateful.  The execution is nothing like what has been suggested.

[j_menz]

In the International Edition of the "Pieces De Clavecin," (Jean-Philippe Rameau), on page 4 ""Note for the execution of embellishments," it lists the name of the various embellishments, and then how they are to be executed.  It contains your embellishment which is listed as "Arpegement simple," and also "Arpegement figure."

That is taken from the first edition, and you can find the table here at page 6. The figure in the OP's question is described there as a cadence and equates to a modern trill. How you arrive at the other two escapes me.

The execution is nothing like what has been suggested.

My point is that the edition posted by the OP is a modern typeset edition and appears to have been done using a modern software program such as musescore etc. It is therefore unlikely that the original scoring of ornaments has been adhered to, and the modern reading of the figure is what is intended.

Apart from the fact you have misidentified the ornament (which explains some of the difference), the execution I suggest is at variance from what the same figure would mean in an earlier, or more faithful, edition for that reason.

EDIT:  I should also add that baroque ornaments were not standardised, with some variation between composers, periods and editions. The French were particularly eccentric. The scheme we now have is derived in most part from JS Bach, and modern editions that adopt baroque ornamentation generally follow him. Not all, of course; and especially not reprinted editions (such as Dover). Some care should be exercised, and if included, tables of ornaments should be consulted at least as a preliminary.  That is, tables of ornaments included in the particular edition, not elsewhere unless unavoidable and then with caution.

Of course, ornamentation as written is only ever a serving suggestion, though the better the composer the more seriously that should be considered - especially for less experience players, composers that are new to you, or in a first read through.