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Who's heard of Richard Lipp & Sons? (Read 36203 times)

Offline frederic

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Who's heard of Richard Lipp & Sons?
« on: March 15, 2003, 12:38:56 AM »
I am going to buy a new piano and i am currently interested in a Richard Lipp & sons.
Its supposed to be a really good make. But its quite old, about 1927. Its a 5'5 grand.

Any info about Lipps?

 
"The concert is me" - Franz Liszt

Offline rachfan

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Re: Who's heard of Richard Lipp & Sons?
«Reply #1 on: March 15, 2003, 03:20:28 AM »
Never heard of Lipp grands, but let me make two general observations.  First, it's best not to go below 5'7" or 5'8" in length if you have a choice and the room.  They simply sound better.  Secondly, the life of a quality piano is about 60 years, plus or minus.  That Lipp is already 76.  Unless it's been rebuilt recently, that chore and expense will fall to you.  Once a technician evaluates it, and given likely deficiencies such as a soundboard that probably lost its crown by now, a pinblock that doesn't grip well anymore etc., the rebuild estimate will hit you like sticker shock.  My guess is that the cost will drive you away from the Lipp toward either a new, fully warranteed piano, or a fairly recent used one in very good condition and reasonably priced.  If I were you, I'd keep searching, rather than risking a potentially large financial commitment on an old and unknown brand.
Interpreting music means exploring the promise of the potential of possibilities.

Offline Brian Lawson, RPT

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Re: Who's heard of Richard Lipp & Sons?
«Reply #2 on: March 16, 2003, 07:33:59 PM »
I've heard of them and for that period considered to be amongest the best of European pianos of that time.

With any purchase, have a piano technician inspect it first.
Brian Lawson, RPT
South Africa
http://www.lawsonic.co.za
Piano Tuning and Restorations - world wide

Offline tosca1

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Re: Who's heard of Richard Lipp & Sons?
«Reply #3 on: March 17, 2003, 06:44:46 AM »
Richard Lipp and Sons is a high quality  German piano that used to be made in Stuttgart. Some of their vertical pianos feature exquisite casework and I have come across an old grand here in Auckland that was signed on the soundboard with fulsome praise by the great German pianist Wilhelm Bachaus. As Brian has pointed out, they were considered to be amongst the best pianos of their time.
Of course any piano that is nearly 80 years old will present problems of ageing and deterioration and as RachFan wisely states,  repairs and restoration could be extremely expensive.

Your decision whether to buy or not should be based on the sound of the piano and on an appraisal from an independant tuner/technician to report on the state of the instrument.  
Remember that some older quality pianos have a beauty of sound that is not found in newer instruments but beware also of the irrevocable damage of time on such a  piano.
Good luck,
Robert.


Offline dinosaurtales

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Re: Who's heard of Richard Lipp & Sons?
«Reply #4 on: March 19, 2003, 08:20:14 AM »
These guys are right.  Have a technician inspect the heck out of the thing.  It's kind of like buying a historic house.  You are either *into* the project of restoring and maintaining a historic house or you are not.  If you are not, then best to leave it for someone else who has that kind of love for it.  If you do, then there is a major cool factor to keeping one if it's in decent condition.  Check it out, but DON'T get it if you aren't into the maintenance, because it will probably require some extra!

It would be fun to research it's *history* - a piano that old will have a story of some kind.
So much music, so little time........

Offline tosca1

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Re: Who's heard of Richard Lipp & Sons?
«Reply #5 on: March 19, 2003, 10:36:38 AM »
That's a nice idea to find out the story of the life of this piano.  Much of its life story will be apparent from its external condition.  On looking inside the piano even more information about its history will be apparent. You can see if it is in original condition or if it has had restoration work.  Its internal condition will also tell you more about how it has been maintained and looked after.  
When you play the piano  its voice will also speak to you about its history.  
I love old, "character" pianos and I can drool over images of them as some of my contemporaries may drool over photos of classic cars.
Robert.

Offline rachfan

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Re: Who's heard of Richard Lipp & Sons?H
«Reply #6 on: March 20, 2003, 03:42:35 AM »
Hi Robert,

I have to say, for somebody "Down Under", nothing gets by you there!  Here on the top side of the world, I have never run into a Lipp piano in my life.  And you'd think that being German and across the pond, more would have been exported to the U.S. in their day than to Australia.  Picture that Lipp making its way by ship to Australia, either as a new piano or one being moved by a doting owner.  That's the curious thing about the piano world, you never know what oddity you'll find next.  The same thing applies even within a country.  Baldwin is one of the large companies here.  Yet, due to lack of dealers in Maine, my tuner tells me that I have one of the very few that he's ever seen in his territory.  And the reason it's here is because I brought it on a move from New Hampshire years ago.   So the exact same principle in microcosm.  

David  
Interpreting music means exploring the promise of the potential of possibilities.

Offline frederic

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Re: Who's heard of Richard Lipp & Sons?
«Reply #7 on: March 20, 2003, 07:26:11 AM »
hey

i ve bought the piano
my tuner had a look and said its a beautiful instrument and that the age does not really matter. He said that 1890 to 1930 (i think) has seen the best of piano making with all those famous piano makers. The Lipp is 1927. It has nothing wrong with it except some keys which are chipped and a dead sounding high treble.
So im kinda glad ive bought it.
"The concert is me" - Franz Liszt

Offline tosca1

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Re: Who's heard of Richard Lipp & Sons?
«Reply #8 on: March 20, 2003, 08:04:14 AM »
Congratulations Frederic and what a thrill it is to get a new piano and especially one of considerable pedigree such as a Richard Lipp instrument!  Maybe your technician/tuner can put some life back into the upper treble by refacing the hammers. This is not expensive and can be done at home.  These pianos have a beautiful mellow sound and are ideal for the music that you love.
Best wishes,
Robert.

Offline tosca1

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Re: Who's heard of Richard Lipp & Sons?
«Reply #9 on: March 20, 2003, 08:25:48 AM »
Thank you David for your response.  New Zealand, because of its long, close association with the United Kingdom, used to import thousands of the cheaper British pianos at the popular end of the market and  a surprisingly large number of the quality German instruments for the wealthier and more discerning buyers.  The distinguished German Bechstein and BlŁthner pianos  had their outlets in London and from there they could be easily shipped to New Zealand.  Richard Lipp pianos were among the quality imports and I have seen many examples of this make of piano in private homes and in piano dealerships.
Yehudi Menuhin remarked during a concert tour here in the fifties that "New Zealand was a country of upright pianos and upright people"!
American pianos are less well known here and of course, during the sixties and seventies the Asian pianos like the Asian cars began to replace the traditional British and Continental imported ones.
Kind regards,
Robert.
   

Offline dinosaurtales

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Re: Who's heard of Richard Lipp & Sons?
«Reply #10 on: March 20, 2003, 08:36:32 AM »
Congratulations on the Lipp!  You are one lucky person!  Pianos with history are loaded with good karma - it's history will continue with you!  Take care of it - sounds like one that deserves love!

Mindy
So much music, so little time........

Offline rachfan

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Re: Who's heard of Richard Lipp & Sons?
«Reply #11 on: March 21, 2003, 03:05:21 AM »
Congrats, Frederic, on your purchase.  May it bring you many years of pleasure!
Interpreting music means exploring the promise of the potential of possibilities.

Offline mags

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Re: Who's heard of Richard Lipp & Sons?
«Reply #12 on: June 16, 2005, 07:39:06 AM »
Hi, on the subject of Richard Lipp & Sons, I have such a piano with the inscriptions of K.Hof-Lieferanten, Stuttgart, Gegrundet 1831.  I am wondering if anyone could shed more light on the history or value of such a piano, or where I could acquire some more information?

Offline c18cont

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Re: Who's heard of Richard Lipp & Sons?
«Reply #13 on: June 21, 2005, 10:44:57 AM »
Hi...

I owned a R. Lipp and Sns...forget the number...a 6'1" from about 1894 as I recall......

It was a truly "grand" piano, with a wonderful sound, even with several cracks in the board...The action was faultless for the age...It played very well...but the case was really bad as it had been closed up, and got a lot of "activity" on it's surfaces....

I paid $1000, and sold it for $2500, as I was unable to afford the needed rebuild, and it was a piano that deserved a rebuild....

It was done by the wealthy guy that bought it, and is well regarded by those who see and play it today....

Of course, they are two pedal, and 85 note...remember....

Regards,   John Cont

Offline c18cont

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Re: Who's heard of Richard Lipp & Sons?
«Reply #14 on: June 21, 2005, 10:59:39 AM »
O.K.,

On the slight chance some may be interested in the Lipp I had, in history:

After WW I, things were bad in Germany...The man who owned the piano was a concert pianist, but no one here unfort. knows his NAME....(!!!!)...or they didn't remember...Nothing has been found about it...

He came to America, with the piano ready for touring...a not uncommon practice for the time...1921....many traveled with their piano, as it was likely they would NOT find a good grand in small towns that were willing to pay for a concert...and he did much of east side of Florida...

He ended up in my small hometown in Northwest Florida..., did a big concert at the library, and SOLD them the piano for enough money to go to the west coast...As far as I could find out, no one remembers any more, and the records are lost....Seems his name was once remembered, but I can't recently, find anyone that remembers...

I played the piano as a child and young man, doing several recitals with it, and acc. many singers...They built a new library, decided it this modern world a piano was not needed and sold it....I almost missed it, seeing it in the paper after it was in for a few days, and a few were neg. the price...I simply went up and paid the $1000 spot on...and never looked back.

I sold it as it was NOT satisfactory anymore for my level without a rebuild....(see other post...)..I do somewhat regret selling...

My Regards,   John Cont

vocalise

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Re: Who's heard of Richard Lipp & Sons?
«Reply #15 on: June 23, 2005, 04:49:08 PM »
I recently looked in at a shop in Wellington, New Zealand at a Lipp grand currently undergoing restoration, check it out here:

http://www.pianoshop.datum.tv/afawcs0112976/ID=43/SID=638001131/page=1/productdetails.html

Several qualified people I have spoken to in the industry tell me this brand was the "Rolls Royce" of pianos and has a beautiful quality of tone. Indeed, I have two pianos, one is a dog and is 100yrs old, the other is a Lipp upright, and is a 100yrs young. How a piano after such a long time can have a lovely tone is highly interesting and begs the question "Just exactly what is it that some piano-makers did and others did not?" What are these secrets??

Anyway I can assure you that a Lipp piano is *highly desirable* - a very very good piano. I have heard it said from several sources here in NZ that if you see a Lipp upright, then check out the frame  - if it has the double crown emblem in the casting, then its the good one! Snatch it up!

I would suggest that you have made a good purchase, if the level of rebuild extends to something so major as the soundboard, then I would say it would be well worth it.

The problem you may have is that when it is restored and well regulated and voiced, it could affect your love life for the worse :-)

A convinced chap in NZ

Offline phykell

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Re: Who's heard of Richard Lipp & Sons?
«Reply #16 on: June 24, 2005, 12:29:50 AM »
The guy who restored my 1920 S&S Hamburg D is a great believer in the quality of Richard Lipp pianos. Coincidentally, my piano teacher's instrument is also a Richard Lipp so I'm lucky enough to play my own S&S daily plus the Richard Lipp every week. The Lipp is regularly tuned but probably needs a lot of work doing on it. Despite this, it has a uniquely dark and resonant sound for its size (it's a grand but probably only 6.5' or so) and the action, though loose compared to mine which has only recently been "restored", is very satisfying to play with seemingly wide keys and an excellent balance. If it's as good as it is in the condition it's in, I'm sure it would be a fantastic instrument if it had the necessary work done to it. I've played one other Lipp, and that was also very impressive. I'm no expert of course but I wouldn't be surprised if they can be as good as anything else out there of that vintage :)

Offline c18cont

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Re: Who's heard of Richard Lipp & Sons?
«Reply #17 on: June 24, 2005, 01:34:29 AM »
The grand shown at the site given by Vocalise,

Looks very sim. to the 6'1" I had and sold..but it is not really in as good condition as mine was..it appears to me...(and every comment on this thread is making me more sorry, tho' I really could not afford the restoration...).

I am going to try to get up to the town where the one I owned is now located, and will get a picture and some details if I can...It has supposedly been completely restored, but I don't know who did it...

Best,  John Cont

Offline c18cont

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Re: Who's heard of Richard Lipp & Sons?
«Reply #18 on: June 30, 2005, 01:36:18 AM »
Another fact occured to me and I have a question...

My Lipp was 6'1" and it had agraffes to the top..(no capo, in other words...).

Somewhere on the forum I saw it is preferred in design....Anyone know, or know other pianos with no capo?

Regards,  John

Offline c18cont

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Re: Who's heard of Richard Lipp & Sons?
«Reply #19 on: June 30, 2005, 01:44:37 AM »
Im found the notation about agraffes...,

It was my own subject, "Agraffes", under instruments, and it was an answer by G.Fiore.

John

Offline maier.c4

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Wilhelm Bachaus Piano Signature
«Reply #20 on: March 04, 2008, 04:46:36 PM »
I hope this will reach Robert/Tosca1 regarding the post quoted below from 2003...

You don't say if your signed piano is dated but my great grandfather was a pianist and music critic in Christchurch NZ.  His name was HM Lund (1847-1932).  He is mentioned in an article in the NY Musical Courier in 1927 regarding Wilhelm Backhaus' concert tour of that period.  It is unclear if he actually came to NZ on that visit -- maybe you know -- although he definitely seems to have come to NZ in 1930.  Anyway, I really don't have much more information than that but would be happy to share the article if it is of interest as a piece of potentially related provenance...!

Piano,
Hermione

Richard Lipp and Sons is a high quality  German piano that used to be made in Stuttgart. Some of their vertical pianos feature exquisite casework and I have come across an old grand here in Auckland that was signed on the soundboard with fulsome praise by the great German pianist Wilhelm Bachaus. As Brian has pointed out, they were considered to be amongst the best pianos of their time.
Of course any piano that is nearly 80 years old will present problems of ageing and deterioration and as RachFan wisely states,  repairs and restoration could be extremely expensive.

Your decision whether to buy or not should be based on the sound of the piano and on an appraisal from an independant tuner/technician to report on the state of the instrument.  
Remember that some older quality pianos have a beauty of sound that is not found in newer instruments but beware also of the irrevocable damage of time on such a  piano.
Good luck,
Robert.



Offline pharmer_norm

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Re: Who's heard of Richard Lipp & Sons?
«Reply #21 on: May 22, 2010, 04:51:44 PM »
I have a 1905 Lipp upright (25348) here in Australia that belonged to my great grandfather, who apparently was a piano maker. I'm not sure if he brought it with him when he immigrated here or whether he had it shipped over afterwards.
I got a piano tech to come and check it over about 5 years ago. The guy couldn't believe his eyes. It's in outstanding condition apart from a few marks on the top of the keyboard cover, and only required a few minor things done to bring it back to almost original condition. It sounds amazing. It really is a work of art. Beautiful inside and out. I will never sell it.  :D



Offline c18cont

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Re: Who's heard of Richard Lipp & Sons?
«Reply #22 on: May 22, 2010, 08:43:38 PM »
I sold my Lipp and Sns grand..(small 6/1- 1880's) many years ago now....biggest mistake I ever made in pianos...

John Cont

Offline oldtom68

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Re: Who's heard of Richard Lipp & Sons?
«Reply #23 on: February 27, 2011, 03:02:48 AM »
I have a Richard Lipp Two Crown Upright Grand built in 1913 No 34072.It is a beautiful sounding instrument and was given to my late wife in 1973 by a friend.My wife was certified to seventh grade here in Australia.She passed away in 1988 and sadly the piano has not been used but a few times since  and was in storage for 8 years and has been moved 3 times and is still in tune except for 2 keys that are slightly sticky.At the moment it rest in the garage as I dont have room inside.The timberwork is in a sad state and needs a good tradesman to work on it.Sadly I will eventually need to sell it.But until then I admire its beauty  of looks and sound. A Richard Lipp is a truly magnificient instrument no matter what year it was built.
They seem to last forever. regards Thomas

Offline pj1985

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Re: Who's heard of Richard Lipp & Sons?
«Reply #24 on: April 17, 2011, 08:47:11 AM »
Hi,

We have a Richard Lipp & Son Upright Piano made in 1903, we are interested in selling it and are curious as to how much it is worth?

It is in good condition.

If anyone has any information as to how much it is worth it would be much appreciated.

Thanks,

Paula

Offline lhorwinkle

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Re: Who's heard of Richard Lipp & Sons?
«Reply #25 on: April 17, 2011, 12:41:26 PM »
Quote
Richard Lipp & Son Upright Piano ... 1903 ... how much it is worth? It is in good condition.
It's not enough to say "good condition". A piano has thousands of parts, and every one of them deteriorates with age.

Loose hammer heads, sticking keys, and many other problems are usually simple to fix and won't cost much.

Hammers worn more than can be handled with shaping and voicing must be replaced, which is somewhat costly.

If the strings are rusty and need replacement, that can cost thousands.

Cracks in the bridges or pin block are expensive repairs. Very expensive.

If these are left to the buyer to correct, the net value of the item is lower, naturally.

In the end, you need an experienced technician to assess the piano before its value can be assessed.


Offline richard black

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Re: Who's heard of Richard Lipp & Sons?
«Reply #26 on: April 17, 2011, 10:27:02 PM »
Unfortunately, an upright from 1903 is likely to be almost worthless unless it has fairly recently been comprehensively rebuilt. An enthusiast for old pianos might be keen to own it but still wouldn't be likely part with much money for it, and anyone considering giving it heavy use will need to factor in the cost of restoration. I'm in the UK so I'll give you an idea in Pounds Sterling - you'd probably be doing well to clear £500 on an unrestored 1903 Lipp. Apart from anything else, it's a buyer's market for elderly uprights. All the same, if it goes to a good home it could still give many years of pleasure to someone.
Instrumentalists are all wannabe singers. Discuss.

Offline okforall

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Re: Who's heard of Richard Lipp & Sons?
«Reply #27 on: August 03, 2011, 03:50:25 PM »
Hi

So glad to see this wonderful  "ancient" make still of interest!  as I have watched this thread for some time!

Regards, Ok

Offline nzelle

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Re: Who's heard of Richard Lipp & Sons?
«Reply #28 on: August 04, 2011, 01:56:45 PM »
I am interested to read all these comments about Richard Lipp pianos. I am lucky enough to own 2 Lipp grand pianos. I have a 5ft 6 model built in about 1925 (Bought at Harrods!) I believe and keep it in a flat in Malta. I am only the second owner as I bought it from a lady who was given it as a wedding present. The second is, I believe a collectors piece - a truely magnificent instrument. It is a full size Concert grand and I believe it was built in about 1896. It has been restored twice. Once by Crofton Millier, the piano tuner and mainenance expert for the Bournemouth symphony orchestra. When I told him of it he did not believe me and drove up to see the instrument after supper that evening! He was delighted and told me he had never come across an R Lipp concert grand, and did not even know that Lipp made concert grands. It makes a wonderful sound and is on loan to a piano student. The second restoration was by Geoffrey Dancer in London, who used it for recitals in Hampstead Parish Church.

Offline okforall

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Re: Who's heard of Richard Lipp & Sons?
«Reply #29 on: August 04, 2011, 09:42:35 PM »
WoW                :o            :o

Great story on the two Lipp Grands !!!!!!  Mine was 6-1   but I measured  6   They told me when I bought it    it was  6'1"    ................

My Regards  !!!!   and you have two great piano's there I'm sure!!!

   Ok

Offline nzelle

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Re: Who's heard of Richard Lipp & Sons?
«Reply #30 on: August 05, 2011, 09:34:41 AM »
I believe the concert grand is 9ft 6" but I can't measure it as it is on loan to a student. When it was restrung the new bass strings were amazing - they just purred! - a really beautiful sounding instrument.

Nick

Offline withindale

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Re: Who's heard of Richard Lipp & Sons?
«Reply #31 on: August 06, 2011, 08:44:13 AM »
Here's are couple of movies of a 1928 Lipp upright on eBay today:
(action)
(played)
also:
(demo)

Offline ferrel5desle

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Re: Who's heard of Richard Lipp & Sons?
«Reply #32 on: August 08, 2011, 10:45:25 AM »
It's a really good idea. Richard Lipp & sons is the best one.
No need to think about it's quality. It comes with high quality. So just go for it.

Offline withindale

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Re: Who's heard of Richard Lipp & Sons? You Tube movies
«Reply #33 on: August 08, 2011, 10:58:58 AM »
Please note I have modified the YouTube links above - one was wrong.

Offline kegaro

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Not antique or grand Lipp Piano
«Reply #34 on: August 25, 2011, 05:58:07 AM »
I'd like to find out how old my piano is as I may have to sell it and that might give me some idea of what it would be worth.    It's very much newer than the lovely old things on this page, but just as loved.     It has Palings stamped and tab inside the frame with A10233 which I presume is an Aust number - I can't find any Aust numbers on the web.  It is a LU109.
Can anybody help?

Offline hendrypianos

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Re: Who's heard of Richard Lipp & Sons?
«Reply #35 on: November 22, 2015, 12:47:50 PM »
Ladies, gents,

First time poster here but was interested in the various comments about Richard Lipp pianos (the original German ones that is). So, with apologies for it being an older original post and because we're all a bit strange in the piano world I can give some very broad history of the brand here in Australia. 
Principal agents in Victoria were Allans Music from as far back as the mid-1870's. I've seen photographs of Adelaide S.A. in the 1890's and the agents there were Kuhnels, also a long-established local dealer.
German pianos became popular in Australia in the 1880's thanks mainly to the great International Exhibitions (Sydney 1979, Melbourne 1880 and 1888) in which the German piano manufacturers overshadowed the complacent British competitors with a range of styles, better pricing (Bismark's national shipping lines playing their part) and frankly, better quality.  The Germans were also embracing the latest in American technology, which gave them a technological edge.
The Richard Lipp, as has been correctly observed above IMO, was a manufacturer of high class. Not really in the same realm as a Bechstein or Bluthner, but highly regarded nevertheless, and with a performance to match.
Their most popular upright through the pre-1900 era was quite unique visually as the end-plates are curved, not flat.  For want of a better name we call them the 'extended end' models. The Tone in the mid-range and bass in particular is quite outstanding and I can vouch personally that the bass strings are longer than a C5 Yamaha's!
The 'extended-end' models do suffer from one major issue with age, and that is the standard non-laminated tuning-plank (wrest-plank for the northern hemisphere) of rock beech dries out very badly in the Australian climate.  Lifetime residency in northern N.S.W. and Queensland will have trashed most of these models as the dryness means the tuning-pins sag prodigiously and render the pianos untuneable. Sadly, either extensive rebuilding or replacement of the instrument are the alternatives in these instances.
There are a number of Lipp grands out here, many dating from the 1880's or earlier. These have the older style non-capstan adjustable whippen/key assembly, and some of them are 3/4 iron-frame as well. I'd suggest that neither Bechstein or Bluthner had got their foothold in the Australian market at that time, as both are superior technologically.  The tone can be quite fantastic however, especially of the mid-7-footer.
The "two-Crown" model referred to was produced, to the best of my knowledge, from around 1903 through to the Great Depression (and possibly later, but we don't see them).  At their very best, simply one of the  best upright pianos you will ever play, with a breadth and quality of tone not heard in most modern pianos.  I have a client with a 1927 model.  88 years old and quite awesome ... so, with respect to others' experience, I'll just suggest that each of these older pianos should be judged on their own merits.  Age is not always decisive.
I'm wary of going on and on, but for those surprised at what is 'Down Under' ... in the five years prior to WW1 Australia was the biggest export market in the world for German pianos, with as much as 90% in one particular year being German, and perhaps 80,000 pianos arriving in that period.  Don't let anyone tell you WW1 wasn't a "trade war"!  :)
Cyril Erlich's book "The Piano" is a great read for those interested.
Mike Hendry
Melbourne, Aust.

Offline gracie1898

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Re: Who's heard of Richard Lipp & Sons?
«Reply #36 on: January 30, 2016, 12:39:26 PM »
Hi,

I thought Iíd post as I came across this thread whilst doing some research before buying my piano. Itís a late 1898 Richard Lipp & Sohn "double crown" upright which was refurbished in 1989 by a local restorer. Itís in very good condition with the most gorgeous tone and plays beautifully. Iíve attached some photos for everyone to enjoy. Please accept my apologies about the reflections from a nearby window.