Feeling Like You Will Never Achieve / Patience

[002517]

Hello,

Sometimes while I practice, and I make mistakes over and over again, or simply because time passes so slowly, I feeling like I will never become good at playing. But it wouldn't surprise me if many others in the middle of their practice think about that too. What lifts you from this low? What is something that reassures you that this is not true?

Also, patience thread. How do you keep patient while you practice? How do you keep patient that you only slowly get better at playing? I think patience is important, especially because we live in a time where everything is instant. We want to see immediate results. I like thinking about this quote:

"Infinite patience produces immediate results" - Wayne Dyer

Thank you. Tell me how you would answer those questions.

[outin]

Sometimes while I practice, and I make mistakes over and over again, or simply because time passes so slowly, I feeling like I will never become good at playing. But it wouldn't surprise me if many others in the middle of their practice think about that too. What lifts you from this low? What is something that reassures you that this is not true?

Yes, that's how it often is. My general life philosophy adapts to piano learning quite well: I just keep going through the lows and inevitably better times will follow.

Also, patience thread. How do you keep patient while you practice? How do you keep patient that you only slowly get better at playing?

Can't help you with that, I don't have patience. What I have is something else that I don't know an English word for, we call it "sisu". Kind of stubbornness that doesn't let me give up after I have started no matter what.

[002517]

Just toughing it out huh.

What I have is something else that I don't know an English word for, we call it "sisu". Kind of stubbornness that doesn't let me give up after I have started no matter what.

Is "sisu" Finnish? The concept sounds resilient.

[j_menz]

How do you keep patient that you only slowly get better at playing?

How do you eat an elephant?

Rather than worrying about the slow progress you make towards the unattainable goal of perfection, concentrate on the very real progress you make towards your immediate goals.

[dima_76557]

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[outin]

Just toughing it out huh.

Is "sisu" Finnish?

Yes

[outin]

P.S.: Patience, however, is absolutely necessary to fulfil what your sisu dictates.

I you say so

Now where do I get some?

[dima_76557]

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[outin]

Ask your cat. She knows, I'm sure. She may tell you that certain things take time to grow. Going against that law is utterly useless and you will be punished for it which seems like something you want to avoid.

But my cats don't have patience either, they are of an odd breed as is their owner

[dima_76557]

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[michael_student]

Sometimes while I practice, and I make mistakes over and over again, or simply because time passes so slowly, I feeling like I will never become good at playing.

I'm having a similar feelings at times... it takes so long to learn a piece that didn't look tough at first, so many hours just to get a few seconds to sound right.  And then this weekend I was disappointed to discover I'd already forgotten how to play one I learned a couple months ago ... so it takes a certain amount of effort just to keep from deteriorating.  I'm not sure that I'm using my practice time as effectively as possible.

[outin]

To some degree they must have some, otherwise you wouldn't recognize your house/apartment after you come back home from work.

Or they just sleep a lot

But seriously, I think there are two kinds of patience: The kind that lets one calmly accept that things (and people especially) take time without getting annoyed. And then the kind that keeps one engaged in some work in the search for perfection. I guess it's the first kind that I lack, not the second.

[swagmaster420x]

I think I experience "sisu" very strongly, but sometimes persisting in the spirit of "sisu" can be more detrimental than quitting (for me).

Taking my experiences to have familiarity with sisu, I would describe sisu with words like "hunger," "itching," and "compulsion." Because it just feels bad and unfulfilling to stop before completing what you set out to do, you keep doing it doggedly. I think this had negative consequences in the context of me practicing a passage I really wanted to get right but couldn't. In a self fueling feedback loop sort of situation, I would get frustrated and feel compelled to practice a passage more, but the more I practiced it the more I felt like each time I played it wrong was two steps backward and that each time I played it right only counted for a half step forward.

This concept also applies to video games. The analog of having a mental block during practice is going on tilt while playing ranked. It feels totally demoralizing and you're desperate to win just once so you can slightly make up for your losses, but in the end "negative sisu" only helps you to dig a deeper trench.

I find that it helps to take a break and tackle something later with "fresh" sisu. That's what helped me rank up. For piano, I guess, it would be good to try different angles and approaches.

I hope I didn't completely misunderstand the concept


 

[outin]

I think I experience "sisu" very strongly, but sometimes persisting in the spirit of "sisu" can be more detrimental than quitting (for me).

Taking my experiences to have familiarity with sisu, I would describe sisu with words like "hunger," "itching," and "compulsion." Because it just feels bad and unfulfilling to stop before completing what you set out to do, you keep doing it doggedly. I think this had negative consequences in the context of me practicing a passage I really wanted to get right but couldn't. In a self fueling feedback loop sort of situation, I would get frustrated and feel compelled to practice a passage more, but the more I practiced it the more I felt like each time I played it wrong was two steps backward and that each time I played it right only counted for a half step forward.

This concept also applies to video games. The analog of having a mental block during practice is going on tilt while playing ranked. It feels totally demoralizing and you're desperate to win just once so you can slightly make up for your losses, but in the end "negative sisu" only helps you to dig a deeper trench.

I find that it helps to take a break and tackle something later with "fresh" sisu. That's what helped me rank up. For piano, I guess, it would be good to try different angles and approaches.

I hope I didn't completely misunderstand the concept

Yes, one should still use one's brain to find new solutions when facing the difficulties. There's a fine line between having sisu and being stupidly stubborn...

[bronnestam]

Can't help you with that, I don't have patience. What I have is something else that I don't know an English word for, we call it "sisu". Kind of stubbornness that doesn't let me give up after I have started no matter what.

So ... you are from Finland. Forgive me for not having noticed that before. Terve! I used to work with a girl named Outi at Ericsson once.
The Swedish equivalent to sisu should be "jävlaranamma", I guess. Or maybe it is more close to what an American would call "turbo boost". Or simply "determination".

Well, to go back to the original question, my recipie for overcoming that feeling of hopelessness and impatience is to go down to atom level. So, you cannot play that certain piece? OK, just don't be afraid to go into details. I have discovered that my always-so-recurring-mistakes often are caused by me being sloppy. I simply haven't identified the real problem thoroughly. WHERE do I always go wrong? Often it turns out that I make a clumsy transition between, let's say, two chords, so that I slip down on wrong keys, and then I make a quick "post correction" or just get annoyed which will affect my playing negatively.

And how do I get rid of it? Well, not by quickly playing that transition one million times more, repeating the same mistake one million times more, but by slowing down considerably. And then I make a stop RIGHT BEFORE that critical spot, make dead sure that I will hit the right keys this time, and play. Then I stop and repeat the whole procedure, and gradually I can play faster and with shorter stop, until the error is totally gone.
I do not bother about "keeping the rythm" or care too much about note values in this process, if my major issue is about playing wrong keys. It is not about making beautiful music at that stage anyway.
Of course I might also have a rythm problem, and I will take care of it once I don't play wrong notes. But I believe in solving one problem at a time.

So, my idea is that you have to take the bull by the horns (you say that in English too, don't you?) and really analyze your problem and really try to fix it. Or them ... At least my general mistake when I "just cannot learn" is that I don't dare to look in the microscope. We might call it impatience, yes. But this microscope focus also solves the impatience problem, because you will very quickly notice significant progress and that is very encouraging.
So, stop trying to play too much too fast. Break the problem down to atom level. DO NOT play wrong notes. It is better to "freeze" until you are 100 % sure you will play the right key, rather than gambling. Play so slowly that you will get it right, but don't waste time on sections you already know. (Play these faster, or not at all.)

[outin]

So ... you are from Finland. Forgive me for not having noticed that before. Terve! I used to work with a girl named Outi at Ericsson once.
The Swedish equivalent to sisu should be "jävlaranamma", I guess. Or maybe it is more close to what an American would call "turbo boost". Or simply "determination".

Hej på dig! Jag är verkligen en äkta finnjävel

[bronnestam]

Hej på dig! Jag är verkligen en äkta finnjävel

    

[yadeehoo]

How do you eat an elephant?

Gross....

[bernadette60614]

I think you develop patience when you have the confidence that you can overcome an obstacle.

And, for me to overcome an obstacle in playing, I have to understand what the obstacle is.

I'm working on a Mozart sonata right now, with a lot of quick grace notes in the left hand.  I stumble over them all the time.  Then, I just took 20 minutes and analyzed what I"m doing:  My fingering is a little off, each time I play them I don't "flick" my finger off them, I clunk my finger down on them.  And, more!  Once I really focused, I was able to look at the 4 things I needed to adjust, and take them one by one.

Also, we're human...no one wants to start the hard stuff first. But, isolate your points where you always seem to play the wrong notes, bracket them in red (or green, if that is a little friendlier) and address those first.

[bernadette60614]

And, something else I find helps:

When I start a piece I write the date at the top. Then, as I start a new section of the piece, I write the date again.  I'm able to look back at my collection of scores and see that 3 years ago when I started, I was playing Bach 2 Part Inventions, and it took me two months of 45 minutes a day of practice to feel good about what I was playing.  Now, when I look at 6 pages of Schubert I'm working on, I don't get frazzled or discouraged by the 2 months it is taking me to feel good about my playing.

Also, learning is lifelong.  It isn't for everyone.  You're challenging yourself, which isn't something everyone wants to do (many people prefer to be entertained instead of challenged.)  That is, as Martha Stewart would say "a good thing".

[002517]

And, something else I find helps:

When I start a piece I write the date at the top. Then, as I start a new section of the piece, I write the date again.  I'm able to look back at my collection of scores and see that 3 years ago when I started, I was playing Bach 2 Part Inventions, and it took me two months of 45 minutes a day of practice to feel good about what I was playing.  Now, when I look at 6 pages of Schubert I'm working on, I don't get frazzled or discouraged by the 2 months it is taking me to feel good about my playing.

Also, learning is lifelong.  It isn't for everyone.  You're challenging yourself, which isn't something everyone wants to do (many people prefer to be entertained instead of challenged.)  That is, as Martha Stewart would say "a good thing".

That's sounds like a nice way to keep track of progress. I'll try that.

I also have another question for you all:

On some days, I feel like I just can't be bothered to practice. I think it may be because of the boring repatoire (I have to do for an exam), or also, just because things take so long to learn and improve and how repetitive a practice routine can be (metronome on, repeat, metronome up, repeat, etc.) And I skip days of practice, which, from experience, I have learned is detrimental to my playing. But such consequences still don't motivate or alert me.

What are things that motivate you to keep on practicing everyday?

[outin]

What are things that motivate you to keep on practicing everyday?

I am not necessarily motivated to practice every day. I get motivated by sitting down and starting the work. I am naturally quite lazy, so it's not that I don't want to practice, I just don't always have the energy to get up and walk to the piano. After I do it keeps me engaged easily. So I trick myself: I tell myself that I only have to play 5 minutes or do a few scales to fill my daily quota. Then after I am at it, it never stays at that but I usually practice as long as I can.

I have also noticed that watching someone play always makes me want to have my hands on the piano as well. So I might put on a DVD of my favorite pianist and after a while I just have to go...

I try if possible to practice even just 15 minutes every morning before work. Then if I am too tired in the evening I have at least had some daily time with the piano. But I don't really think a day or two away from the piano is really a bad thing, sometimes it actually is good for the playing if I have obsessed too much over a piece.

[002517]

I am not necessarily motivated to practice every day. I get motivated by sitting down and starting the work. I am naturally quite lazy, so it's not that I don't want to practice, I just don't always have the energy to get up and walk to the piano. After I do it keeps me engaged easily. So I trick myself: I tell myself that I only have to play 5 minutes or do a few scales to fill my daily quota. Then after I am at it, it never stays at that but I usually practice as long as I can.

I have also noticed that watching someone play always makes me want to have my hands on the piano as well. So I might put on a DVD of my favorite pianist and after a while I just have to go...

I try if possible to practice even just 15 minutes every morning before work. Then if I am too tired in the evening I have at least had some daily time with the piano. But I don't really think a day or two away from the piano is really a bad thing, sometimes it actually is good for the playing if I have obsessed too much over a piece.

I tried your technique and it worked for me! So I started for 5 minutes, but then I started noticing that some passages needed working on, so I kept practicing, and practicing, and practicing. 

I also listened to recordings of pieces (which I do very rarely) and I got some inspiration. Before, I hated Beethoven's compositions, but now that I am listening to his piano sonatas, I am finding them very beautiful.

Thank you outin. I ask a lot of questions... and I have (I am sure now) just one more:

How do you stay committed to practicing regularly?

Thank you.

[bernadette60614]

I think practicing is like going to the gym.  I never regret going to the gym.  I work out 6 hours a week (that's an hour a day, 6 days a week) and I've been doing this for the last 20 years.

I am by no means an athlete, but because of being consistent, I'm in far better shape than my peers.

I never regret practicing. Even if I make one incremental improvement, that is one incremental improvement closer to a well played piece.

[outin]

How do you stay committed to practicing regularly?

Mainly it's about forming a habit. At first it must be a decision to make: Do a little bit of something every day and try your very best not a to skip any. After a few months it will become more automatic, I promise

Having regular lessons helps of course, it would be quite silly to pay for lessons if I didn't do the homework that is necessary to advance.

I know it is often considered a good thing to take a break once a week, but for me it does not work. If I skip one day it will be easy to skip another and after a while I might find myself practicing only on weekends.

And of course it helps to pick pieces to study that one really likes

[002517]

Thank you so much everyone for your contribution and ideas. I think and I feel like I am ready to make some progress!