Obsessing over Finger Legato in Bach

[conserv]

Hey guys,

Quick question, i've been looking over my fingerings for most of my repertoire and have found that i've been obsessing over finger legato in Bach, so much so that I feel uneasy when a voice has even a slight hiccup or break. Do you guys make heavy use of finger substitution in Bach, like an organ, or feel more inclined to lift the fingers once in a while

[extroitus]

Do you guys make heavy use of finger substitution in Bach, like an organ, or feel more inclined to lift the fingers once in a while

Depends on the context. When a new voice enters in a fugue, I usually want that voice to have more legato qualities, and that typically implies finger substitution. When I was young I played Bach from Busoni editions, and he was keen on substitution, so I suppose that has affected me.

[iansinclair]

It does somewhat depend on context.  I do use a lot of finger substitution, but I was trained as an organist.

The degree of legato in any given line in Bach is part of the character of that line.  This is a musical judgement.  My suggestion, though, would be to ensure that your fingering is such that you can maintain a perfect legato in all of the lines of the piece.  Then you can apply "breath" (phrase) breaks where you want them, or allow a bit of detache for emphasis, or whatever.

[brogers70]

I had one teacher who was very keen on finger legato and finger substitution for Bach. After a while I got to like it quite a bit; it's surprising how many passages that seem impossible to do with finger legato can work out once you get used to swapping fingers quickly. My current teacher cares much less about it, but I still do it.

[extroitus]

...swapping fingers quickly.

That's true! I believe that is one of the secrets of the big masters. For instance, in the H major fugue of DWK II - as I remember it - there are passages where "double swapping" is required for keeping the lines. I don't know the proper English word - it's probably not "double swapping" - but what I refer to is this:

1. You hold a third from g# to h with 1 and 2, where you arrived from above.
2. You need to continue one of the voices below, the other is stale.
3. Swap from 1-2 to 4-5 and then go on.

It's not called "double swapping", right?

[sashaco]

I play Bach in very short phrases with frequent "breaths" in the lines.  I finger the lines with this in mind.  Occasionally i play a piece that I have learned in this way with much longer legato phrases, and, curiously, I find it surprisingly effortless to use substitutions to achieve these.  Generally by that point I know the piece very well.  I prefer my highly articulated Bach, but I know not everybody does!

[bobert]

Always playing Bach legato is like humming everything because one doesn't know the lyrics. 

Each melody/theme/subject, counter-subject, motif, & bass line in any Bach piece I've ever worked on suggests its own articulation - yes, sometimes legato if perfectly applicable, but more often than not, something more articulated is quite effective, and all the more if the work has any kind of dance character.

[rachmaninoff_forever]

It's not a big deal if the whole piece isn't mega legato.  Some things are impossible to do without pedal or breaking it.  And since Bach didn't have pedal back in his day, he played with breaks.  It's not a big deal yo.  Just do whatever you thinks sounds good.

[cbreemer]

There's no hard rule for this. Some pieces/passages work better legato, others with detached playing. Mostly a matter of taste, as long as it sounds supple and fluent. Finger substitution is
a great tool,  as are unconventional finger crossings e.g. 4 over 5. And taking notes with the
other hand when possible. It also helps to have a good edition with fingering. I find the
fingerings in Henle Urtext eminently usable and seldom need to disagree with them.