views on absolute/perfect pitch in the music world?

[chopincat]

One of my friends who goes to music school recently told me that her theory teacher doesn't believe that perfect pitch exists. I was really confused by this. Is this a commonly held opinion among music professionals? What do people who hold this view think about people who clearly have the ability to perfectly identify or sing pitches without any reference note? (I think I'm particularly confused because I have perfect pitch).

[j_menz]

If you have it, what do you care what anyone else thinks?

I suspect the professor actually means that perfect_pitch doesn't exist, and we've all entertained that fantasy from time to time. 

[Bob]

Easy enough to test and prove.  I wonder if they mean something more than that though.  ...Depends what they mean by 'perfect pitch' probably.

[perfect_pitch]

If you have it, what do you care what anyone else thinks?

I suspect the professor actually means that perfect_pitch doesn't exist, and we've all entertained that fantasy from time to time. 

And you think that some how I'm a heartless robotic A.I. machine??? You just hate my truth-telling and my ability to dispel bullshit...   

[iansinclair]

Definitions, definitions!  If by perfect pitch you mean that someone might be born with ability -- once they are able to talk -- to confidently say that a A struck on a piano tuned to modern concert pitch is a A 440, but that the same A on the keyboard, played on -- for example the organ at Old St. Paul's in Edinburgh is tuned to a baroque A of 435 (it is, by the way) I'd have to say phooey.

However, if one means that there are individuals with a superb pitch memory and ear for intervals, I'd surely say that you would be correct, and I would be inclined to say, as a sort of short hand that they have perfect pitch.  I don't; I can usually remember a pitch accurately for several hours or even a day or two, but it tends to drift  over time.  On the other hand, I once had a gifted soprano soloist (since passed away, rather young) who could be relied on to give me a starting pitch as accurately as any pitch pipe.

I have also run into would-be singers who could happily go a whole tone flat in two bars and never notice it...

[chopincat]

Definitions, definitions!  If by perfect pitch you mean that someone might be born with ability -- once they are able to talk -- to confidently say that a A struck on a piano tuned to modern concert pitch is a A 440, but that the same A on the keyboard, played on -- for example the organ at Old St. Paul's in Edinburgh is tuned to a baroque A of 435 (it is, by the way) I'd have to say phooey.

I mean, I don't think it would be possible to say that I had it from birth, because I didn't know what the names of the notes even were when I was born. But from what I can remember, I had the ability as soon as I started having piano lessons and learned what pitches and notes were.

If someone were to play me a baroque A as you're describing, I wouldn't be able to say that it was 435 Hz, but I'd probably say that it was a slightly flat A. Would you say phooey to that?

there are individuals with a superb pitch memory and ear for intervals

The thing is, I wouldn't say I have an ear for intervals in the traditional sense. When I hear two notes, I can figure out which notes they are and then figure out what the interval between them is. But I can't just figure out what the interval is right away, I have to figure out the notes first. So I don't think I have relative pitch, which would make it distinct from perfect pitch.

I wouldn't dismiss the claim that perfect pitch is just superb pitch memory, except for the fact that I've never seen anyone learn perfect pitch (except for "learning" it as soon as they pick up music lessons like me). I have seen people learn to memorize specific pitches, though (most people in my choir can sing a C4 pretty accurately without a reference note). But theoretically maybe all 12 pitches of equal temperament could be memorized at a later age. I've just never seen anyone do it.

[iansinclair]

...

If someone were to play me a baroque A as you're describing, I wouldn't be able to say that it was 435 Hz, but I'd probably say that it was a slightly flat A. Would you say phooey to that?

The thing is, I wouldn't say I have an ear for intervals in the traditional sense. When I hear two notes, I can figure out which notes they are and then figure out what the interval between them is. But I can't just figure out what the interval is right away, I have to figure out the notes first. So I don't think I have relative pitch, which would make it distinct from perfect pitch.

I wouldn't dismiss the claim that perfect pitch is just superb pitch memory, except for the fact that I've never seen anyone learn perfect pitch (except for "learning" it as soon as they pick up music lessons like me). I have seen people learn to memorize specific pitches, though (most people in my choir can sing a C4 pretty accurately without a reference note). But theoretically maybe all 12 pitches of equal temperament could be memorized at a later age. I've just never seen anyone do it.

No I wouldn't say phooey to your slightly flat A.  However, I would say that had you been trained in music from an early age at St. Paul's, you might equally regard a 440 A as being slightly sharp -- but that is an experiment which we can't try, if only because most of us are so accustomed to modern pitch that we hear anything else only rarely, if ever.

Accurate relative pitch is distinct -- quite distinct -- from accurate pitch memory.  In my view it is something which can be learned by many people (not everyone) and which I, for one, insisted on my choristers being able to do.  I did and do find it interesting, though, that some intervals are far easier to learn than others, and that that difference doesn't -- in my experience -- vary much with previous musical exposure (previous to formal ear training or sight singing training)

[chopincat]

However, I would say that had you been trained in music from an early age at St. Paul's, you might equally regard a 440 A as being slightly sharp -- but that is an experiment which we can't try, if only because most of us are so accustomed to modern pitch that we hear anything else only rarely, if ever.

Actually, I recently discovered microtonal music, and I'm absolutely fascinated by it. Despite being so used to a certain set of pitches, and despite knowing them all from memory, the pitches that are used in microtonal music don't sound "bad" to me, just very very different. But intriguing and interesting. I wonder what my experience would have been like if I had been exposed to microtonal music from a young age (but, like you said, that's an experiment we can't try).