how our sexual life affects in performance

[caro]

i´ve notice in myself curious aspects of life and music. well since this is a piano forum,and we are here exchanging thoughts as a colllectivity,Ijust wished to share also a human fisical paralelism with music. 
It is quite strange conexion but in the times that my sexual life is not so active musically myself becomes more sort of mystical. I have the need to find more colours and special athmospheres,but i loose discipline and my playing becames dirtier. That happens often,unfortunatelly    but when my sexual life gets active i have noticed that i become absolutelly the opposite. My playing gets cooler,not so serious and much more strict.
does this has any sense?? is it music life in relation with sexual life??
Caro

[m]

i´ve notice in myself curious aspects of life and music. well since this is a piano forum,and we are here exchanging thoughts as a colllectivity,Ijust wished to share also a human fisical paralelism with music. 
It is quite strange conexion but in the times that my sexual life is not so active musically myself becomes more sort of mystical. I have the need to find more colours and special athmospheres,but i loose discipline and my playing becames dirtier. That happens often,unfortunatelly    but when my sexual life gets active i have noticed that i become absolutelly the opposite. My playing gets cooler,not so serious and much more strict.
does this has any sense?? is it music life in relation with sexual life??
Caro

Dunno if it's relevant to your question, but I know for sure that both, sex and piano need lotsa practicing.

[Ludvig_Van_Me]

It makes perfect sense caro.

If you are playing a romantic piece and you have just had sex then it won't sound nearly as good as if you play after going without sex for months.

Like most obsseive male virtuosos, they are channeling their pent up eerm.. Mojo and using it in different areas.

Is it a coincidence that most people that are virtuosos in their selective field are reclosive? (and not getting any)



Basically if we let our animal instincts get the better of us we will become zombies and get into line of the rest of the mankind for the last however many thousand years.

But the clever ones take the emotion that is given to us to use for courting, sex, child bearing etc and using it to take the human mind and body in different directions from what is set out for us.

So really we all need the power of sex, whether you like i or not; I do, but it gets on my nerves a bit(Can you tell?) that it turns people into zombies.




*Not to be confused with love

[donjuan]

hmmm 

What an interesting theory.. Ill be right back with my results! 

haha I happen to agree with Ludvig_Van_Me...euuuerrhhhummm somewhat, but I think LOVE is what influences our performance at the piano more.  and by love, it can be all kinds of love- a mothers love, a relationship, love for a pet.. --> you know, all the things that give you that euphoric rush of happiness and wellbeing.  I think composers and performers alike are their most brilliant at times of being in love as well as depressed from falling out of love.

I keep thinking about Grieg and his piano concerto and how it relates to his daughters death... wow so powerful

however, off all the people who responded to this thread, I have to agree most with Rachlisztchopin- you DO have a lot of guts to bring this up at a piano forum!  I bet if this were a real place and we are all stading around talking you wouldnt be able to talk about sex and how it influences performance.  (haha personally, I dont think sex really has anything to do with performance, just give it say 10 minutes after the fact and youre good to go!  )
donjuan

[bernhard]

On the other hand, here is some cautionary warning/advice from none other than Chopin himself:

[…] I have been thinking a great deal about inspiration and creativity and I have very slowly made an important discovery. Inspiration and ideas only come to me when I have not had a woman for a long time […] A creative person must keep women out of his life, the energy collecting in his system will not go  from his cock and balls into the woman’s womb but into his brain in the form of inspiration and will perhaps give birth to a great work of art. Think of it, the temptation which drives us men into a woman’s arms can be transformed into inspiration! […] Think of it, my sweetest Phindela, how much of that precious fluid and energy I have wasted on you ramming you to no purpose […] Ballads, Polonaises, even a whole concerto may have been lost forever up your “des durka”, I can’t tell how many. I have been so deeply engulfed in my love for you I have hardly created anything, everything creative went straight from my cock into your “des durka”, you are now carrying my music in your womb. […] When the coach will at long last bring you back I’ll cling so hard that for a whole week you won’t be able to get me out of you. Bother all inspiration, ideas and works of art […] I kiss you all over your dear little body and inside.
 
Your faithful Frycek, your most talented pupil who has mastered the art of love .

(Letter to Countess Delphina Potocka, 1833)

 

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

[zemos]

oh my... I can't believe chopin really said that! (: amusing though.. I'll remember that before my next concert.

[chromatickler]

On the other hand, here is some cautionary warning/advice from none other than Chopin himself:

[…] I have been thinking a great deal about inspiration and creativity and I have very slowly made an important discovery. Inspiration and ideas only come to me when I have not had a woman for a long time […] A creative person must keep women out of his life, the energy collecting in his system will not go  from his cock and balls into the woman’s womb but into his brain in the form of inspiration and will perhaps give birth to a great work of art. Think of it, the temptation which drives us men into a woman’s arms can be transformed into inspiration! […] Think of it, my sweetest Phindela, how much of that precious fluid and energy I have wasted on you ramming you to no purpose […] Ballads, Polonaises, even a whole concerto may have been lost forever up your “des durka”, I can’t tell how many. I have been so deeply engulfed in my love for you I have hardly created anything, everything creative went straight from my cock into your “des durka”, you are now carrying my music in your womb. […] When the coach will at long last bring you back I’ll cling so hard that for a whole week you won’t be able to get me out of you. Bother all inspiration, ideas and works of art […] I kiss you all over your dear little body and inside.
 
Your faithful Frycek, your most talented pupil who has mastered the art of love .

(Letter to Countess Delphina Potocka, 1833)

 

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

hahaha i won't spoil this 

[bernhard]

oh my... I can't believe chopin really said that! (: amusing though.. I'll remember that before my next concert.

Chopin was a very naughty boy . And we do not know more simply because George Sand destroyed most of their correspondence just in case it reflected badly on her image.

You can find out just how naughty here:

Nigel Hawthorne – Sex lives of the great composers (Prion)

A most interesting slightly fictionalised biography of Chopin is:

Benita Eisler – Chopin’s Funeral (Vintage)

There is also a DVD on Chopin’s relationship with Delfina: “The mystery of Chopin – the Strange case of Delfina Potocka” (I haven’t seen it though)

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

[m1469]

Very interesting topic, however, a topic which must by its very nature not come to full bloom so as not to spoil our  good intentions 

[Daevren]

Bernard(or anyone else), do you know anything about celibate composers? Preferably non-christians, if that is even possible in the west.

[mosis]

Wow, Chopin was filthy! Cock and balls? HAhahah, that's an Adam Sandler line! 

[bernhard]

Bernard(or anyone else), do you know anything about celibate composers? Preferably non-christians, if that is even possible in the west.

Bruckner, Handel, Manuel de Falla 

and Cliff Richards.

(possibly  )

[bernhard]

Wow, Chopin was filthy! Cock and balls? HAhahah, that's an Adam Sandler line! 

It probably sounds better in French...

[ted]

For me, there is absolutely no connection and I do not believe any general connection exists.

While there may be some mental connection for some people, I can say that sexual activity or its absence is completely unrelated to my music - well, it's probably about as related as what I had for breakfast or the quality of my last bowel motion. 

Even Bertrand Russell displayed what I consider to be a lapse from his usual incisive style, when he stated in an essay that he considered a creative artist would dry up if his libido were removed. 

I accept that the link is valid for certain individuals, composers and pianists, but in general ? No.

[mosis]

It probably sounds better in French...

It's funny in Polish, too. 

[ted]

As with other biographical details, I think the less I know about musicians' sex lives the better. Bach, for instance, must have been a repulsive creature. Sanctimoniously religious to start with, he pumped his poor first wife full of kids until she died and then started on a second. Probably hadn't worked out what caused it. Most of the romantics had this infantile "naughty boy" complex about sex and nobody knew a sperm from a spirochaete.

Yet another reason to ignore composers' lives and just listen to their music.

[xvimbi]

... nobody knew a sperm from a spirochaete.

Very witty!! Many sexually active people in these times were killed off by syphilis, which is caused by the bacterium Treponema pallidum, which is a spirochaete.

Good one!

[lostinidlewonder]

I do not see how sex can make ur playing change. It depends how you see your life, if you see it as everything connected to everything then you will have a big headache. Everything is seperate but together. Of course it is all mental, if you have sex or lack of it, how it affects you is all in the head. There is no physical implications, but the emotion and physical are connected, but not directly. Because of the indirect relationship you have to know how to directly affect it. To say, sex reduces musical creativity/ability is too blatant and not thought of enough. If you think about it more then you will realise a healthy sexual life will equal a healthy life which equals good music. If it is the opposite then you have to question your understanding of sex and human relationships, not try and measure it with your musical ability as an indicator.

[xvimbi]

If you think about it more then you will realise a healthy sexual life will equal a healthy life which equals good music. If it is the opposite then you have to question your understanding of sex and human relationships, not try and measure it with your musical ability as an indicator.

Well, a lot of "good" music has been written because of unhealthy (sexual) relationships. Think of Beethoven, Chopin, Liszt, Schumann, etc. An untroubled live makes for untroubled, some would say boring, music. I think, sex viewed in a more general way, i.e. defined as part of romantic interests, brings with it all the emotional roller-coaster rides that make up good stories. Interestingly, the most emotional pieces are based on unrequitted love, and unhappy relationships. Go figure.

Sex in a purely physical meaning simply takes some energy away from everything else. This can become so draining that there is not much energy left. Admitted, this is a bit extreme, but it may have been what Chopin described as he apparently was stuck in his mistress for days. It's very difficult to compose in this position. So, yes, any ideas he might have had during that time were lost. If anything, the diseases that they all acquired through sex shortened their life span, which certainly robbed humankind of some good pieces. So, OK, sex is bad! Good that I'm not a composer. 

[Bob]

ROFL! 

Chopin stuck for days?!  Bach killing off his wives that way?!!!

 

I have not laughed this hard in ages.

Definitely breaking new terrority on the pf site with this thread.


It is interesting to find out more "real life" information about composers instead of letting them build up into inhuman deities.

hahaha...

[Tash]

hmmmm can't say i've ever really thought about it...

[dmk]

It is interesting to find out more "real life" information about composers instead of letting them build up into inhuman deities.

hahaha...

Speaking of inhuman deities.....one of my students in a recent examination was asked by his rather posh British examiner to tell her something about Schubert.  Now this little bugger had learnt none of the general knowledge he had been given and the only thing that he could remember about Schubert (who happens to be a favourite composer of mine) was that he died of Syphillis!!! 

Needless the say the examiner was less than impressed.  I think she felt this comment may have taken Schubert off his deified post and into the realm of mere mortals LOL....i don't think she found it funny at the time...

dmk

[ted]

Delius's friend,Balfour Gardiner, always maintained that the fabulous flowering of Delius's mature style was due to his syphilis affecting his brain. It is easy to draw such inferences; take for instance Scott Joplin's final fling of Treemonisha and, in literature, Guy de Maupassant's late, brilliant but scarifying stories. It's an interesting theory but I cannot see why a terminal burst of originality could not simply have been produced by the knowledge of impending death, as it was, for instance, with Dennis Potter's last work.

The lascivious double standard of the Victorians is well known; pregnancies and diseases all over the place, so plenty of people were having orgasms, not just musicians. Mind you, there was no electricity, so once darkness set in and the fire went out they couldn't see to read, play cards or read music without a lot of candles. It would have been bitter outdoors so they probably reasoned they might as well have some of the other. I remember my father telling me that his grandparents, who had thirteen children, sat around all Sunday silently reading the Bible with the blinds down and then went up into the attic at dusk. After the thirteenth kid was born, Grandma had a lock fitted to the attic door and only she went upstairs.

But to return to the original topic from the other way around, I find I play some music much better if I imagine very rude things.

[quasimodo]

There’s certainly no general rule that could apply to everybody concerning sex and music. The fact is that a lot of artists (not only musician), probably the majority of them, have their own affective/love life as their main source for inspiration, that was particularly the case  for romantic musicians like Beethoven, Chopin, Liszt, Schumann…

It’s quite obvious that having sex affects your person from one way or another. There are people who get stimulated by some *** while others would be completely “emptied” by an intercourse. It’s clear that if you have sex the whole night before a recital, you’re likely to play crap…, but not only that, the biological process that’s going to take place after having sex, like the production of some hormones, is going to have different effects, depending on the person, as far as concentration, muscular relaxation, perception and so on are concerned.

Playing music and having sex have at least two things in common:

1)   you use your body
2)   it provides you pleasure, physical as well as mental

The same statement could apply about playing sports.

As far as our physical and affective resources are limited, a lot of *** will absorb some resources that are going to be lost for playing music and inversely, playing a lot of music (for example if you have to prepare a big test, a recital or a recording) is likely to decrease your physical interest for your partner (if not worse: it might even jeopardize your overall interest for the entire person).

Then, it definitely makes sense that Caro plays better when her sexual life is not active. The need for sexual activity (libido) is generally admitted as one basic need of our… mind. Lacking of sexual activity automatically generates a frustration that you need to compensate in a way or another, then, playing music could be a great sublimation, an alternate recognition of your body and an alternate pleasure (there are so many musicians that seem to get almost orgasmic sensations from playing).

The bottom line is that our life needs balance. The ideal would be to have great sex AND play great music. It’s just about allocating resources properly (physical and mental energy, time…) and taking the positive from both in order to use it in the other domain.

[zemos]

Bernard(or anyone else), do you know anything about celibate composers? Preferably non-christians, if that is even possible in the west.

beethoven of course!! lived as a celibate and died virgin.

[bernhard]

The bottom line is that our life needs balance. The ideal would be to have great sex AND play great music. It’s just about allocating resources properly (physical and mental energy, time…) and taking the positive from both in order to use it in the other domain.

Sex is an area where even moderation should be taken with moderation.

[bernhard]

beethoven of course!! lived as a celibate and died virgin.

he he

That explains why he owned a book about how to prevent getting the “clap”.

[m1469]

I believe that they are related.

[caro]

I really believe sexual life influences our performance. that´s why i´ve hanged this on the forum. It´s not that i´ve guts pr i´m crazy. Come on,guys!!. We should thing about the way we take care of our body. If we do sports or joga. If we live in nature or in city. If we feed our brains, surely.,etc- All of this things are a little pieces that build what we are, isn´t it???

Indeed,I agree with Quasimodo when he says that a lack of sex produces u a frustation that brings u to a need 2 achieve other goals,which can be music or other fields (u might suddenly find urself painting).
But i don´t agree that u loose ur interest for ur partner when u have lots of music to play,just the other way around. U became more anxious and ur have more need for fisical dessert.
 If u can´t have  sex, then u might stick 2 some other things like smoking 2much,eating chocolate or just a simple and healthy masturbation.
Well, i must admit sex acts as a refreshing mechanism for our body. Everything shines under a different colour next morning. isn´t it?
 the letter of Chopin is a different thing,he talks about love. and i believe she is his main inspiration (specially when he has to miss her!!!)
We forgot there are many kinds of sex. At this point and many thaxs 2 all ur reactions,folks, i would like to add a second question here about this.

 if u just had met someone just for fun, the relation reduces to just a sportive excersice let´s say(without love). U use less energy and u involve urself less.Next day u might feel frustrated and refuge urself inside music. And keep on dreaming on the person that u really love but u can´t reach. Isn´t it a solution??
?

[m1469]

 if u just had met someone just for fun, the relation reduces to just a sportive excersice let´s say(without love). U use less energy and u involve urself less.Next day u might feel frustrated and refuge urself inside music. And keep on dreaming on the person that u really love but u can´t reach. Isn´t it a solution??
?

I don't know if I understand your question.  Are you suggesting that one meets somebody just for sex to release some form of sexual desire, yet the next day one is still frustrated (indicating an unfulfilled sexual desire) because there was not love, and then longs for somebody else whom they do love, thereby maintaining their inspirational drive?

In this scenario, it seems to me that nothing is accomplished and sex for only sports would be simply a waste of time.  What exactly is the "solution" here?

m1469

[quasimodo]

But i don´t agree that u loose ur interest for ur partner when u have lots of music to play,just the other way around. U became more anxious and ur have more need for fisical dessert.

I said "might", some persons sometimes involve themselves too much in the achievement of a goal that nothing/nobody else seems to exist anymore. Fortunately it's not everybody.

It could as well happen the reverse way, just like Chopin describes in his letter.

[quasimodo]

We forgot there are many kinds of sex. At this point and many thaxs 2 all ur reactions,folks, i would like to add a second question here about this.

 if u just had met someone just for fun, the relation reduces to just a sportive excersice let´s say(without love). U use less energy and u involve urself less.Next day u might feel frustrated and refuge urself inside music. And keep on dreaming on the person that u really love but u can´t reach. Isn´t it a solution??
?

It’s a solution but I’m not sure it’s that satisfactory. Wouldn’t it be better not be in love with unreachable persons? But this has nothing to do with music…

I don't know if I understand your question.  Are you suggesting that one meets somebody just for sex to release some form of sexual desire, yet the next day one is still frustrated (indicating an unfulfilled sexual desire) because there was not love, and then longs for somebody else whom they do love, thereby maintaining their inspirational drive?

In this scenario, it seems to me that nothing is accomplished and sex for only sports would be simply a waste of time.  What exactly is the "solution" here?

I think the frustration is not that sexual but rather affective.

Sex only for sports or for fun a waste of time? It’s a judgement of value. You’re referring to your personal moral codes concerning sex, love and stuff. It’s like playing a piece that you don’t really adore, or playing music just for yourself, without an audience. There’s always something to take from it. In music it’s an exercise, in sex too: you learn about your body’s reactions, how to control them, how to find a better pleasure.

We all need to boost our self-esteem, sex without love for some persons is immoral and against self-esteem, while for other persons it’s the contrary: it’s some kind of evidence that you can please, attract and arouse desire and also a proof that your body is “alive”. Playing music without purpose as well contributes to our self-esteem: we don’t particularly like the piece, we don’t play it for an audience but we know we could just do it, learn it, memorize it.

[m1469]

Sex only for sports or for fun a waste of time? It’s a judgement of value. You’re referring to your personal moral codes concerning sex, love and stuff.

You are assuming that you know my motives in having said this.

Playing music without purpose as well contributes to our self-esteem: we don’t particularly like the piece, we don’t play it for an audience but we know we could just do it, learn it, memorize it.

This is not playing music "without purpose"

[m1469]

By the way:

In music it’s an exercise, in sex too: you learn about your body’s reactions, how to control them, how to find a better pleasure.

These are very valid points here and in the cross over into musical endeavors, the mental focus and control this takes and its implications are quite necessary in becoming a convincing performer. 

[quasimodo]

You are assuming that you know my motives in having said this.

If I was wrong, which were your motives then ? Your statement was so peremptory that I think some more argumentation would be welcome.

This is not playing music "without purpose"

It's playing music for playing music, just like Caro talks about having sex just for sex. The purpose of the action is mainly the action in itself. I think there's nothing wrong with that. Now, YOU seem to consider it's wrong for sex.

[m1469]

I do not wish to disclose anything.

[caro]

Generally, however, I cannot imagine choosing a piece that I am not absolutely fascinated with and, any form of playing it (practice as well as performance) would also be fascinating and life-changing (to some degree) as a result of a truly wise selection.  I simply have no desire for anything less.  As it turns out, I feel similarly about sex.  And as with my musical selections so too with sexual encounters, I choose very wisely.


Dear m1469, ur way of expressing in life is wonderful because u trust ur feelings and u really know what u want. But on the other hand it is very risky to mix and put in the same level sex and playing. I´m presenting here a subject about how sex life affects us,which implicates our playing,but we shouldn´t create false paralelisms. It might be out of question. But know that u have said I like 2 express my thoughts as well about playing. You cannot call yourself an artist if u aren´t able to choose music that u don´t like. We are not only players but also we are actors,poets.painters.... And besides that jus performers, translaters of what is in the score. We must put ourselves not on the front of our proudness because we are just servants. You must be able to play anything,even if you hate it and make the audience believe that it is the best music in the world. That´s the art of performing!! don´t forget.




I do not wish to disclose more than the fact that I truly feel this subject is worthy of thoughtful discussion.

Even with this post I have opened my heart.  To what gain?

m1469 Fox




well,my friend, it´s nothing wrong to open your heart. It is something beautiful that many people cannot do. I appreciate it from u ,as everybody  in this forum does. But don´t expect us to always agree in all what you think.

Cheers and thanks for ur participation
Caro

[m1469]

I´m presenting here a subject about how sex life affects us,which implicates our playing,but we shouldn´t create false paralelisms.

Perhaps Caro, for you it is a false parallelism.  You could consider my comments in my previous post as directed more toward answering quasimodo's inquisitions to me, and also as a result of my reaction to the some of the things mentioned in the letter from Chopin.

I do, however, truly appreciate your kindness toward me and your insights on the subject of performance as you have expressed to me above.  It is very good to remember what you have reminded me of.

Thanks,
m1469

[quasimodo]

Relax, m1469 we're just chatting around.

Do I sound inquisitive  ?


Caro, about the "false parallelism", though I'm globally with you, we should not forget that, according to Freud, every aspect of our lives is intricated with our libido. All our major actions are determined by our hidden, subconscious frustrations, and any frustration is basically similar to the specific sexual frustration.

[m1469]

Relax, m1469 we're just chatting around.

 

[caro]

 

JAJAJAJAAAAAAAAAAAAa. u r such a cool guys!
Caro

[Bob]

 :DLet's see... this thread was started four days ago and it's already got about 630 reads.   Hmmmm......    I think there IS something else that interests pianists on the pf site besides music.   

  "But I thought that was just a misspelt number!" 

[caro]

:DLet's see... this thread was started four days ago and it's already got about 630 reads.   Hmmmm......    I think there IS something else that interests pianists on the pf site besides music.   

  "But I thought that was just a misspelt number!" 

don´t be naive,my friend..hahaha
kind regards
Caro

[OiledUpFatMan]

beethoven of course!! lived as a celibate and died virgin.

Thats not true. Beethoven went to whores when he was feeling a bit randy. He wrote about visiting them in his conversation books. Maynard Solomon talks briefly about it in the Beethoven biography he wrote.

[Bob]

OiledUpFatman!?  EWWW!   Sorry to dis your first post, but what on earth possessed you to take that name?

(pounds head on wall to get bad images out of mind)  Yuck!

[OiledUpFatMan]

That Chip n Dales skit Chris Farley did on SNL with Patrick Swayze inspired it. I am pleased to see you enjoy it so much. 

[chopin_girl]

I'd have to agree with donjuan, it is an interesting theory, and I also think that love affects the way we play a certain piece or anything, not sex life. Sex is just a simple physical "feeling" or whatever it is, and love,,,,well, love is a very deep emotion which somehow triggers your brain to do, create, and even feel things you couldn't do before.
When I'm in love, all I do is think about that person and suddenly I'm floating on air you know the feeling, come on!

[steveolongfingers]

When I'm in love, all I do is think about that person and suddenly I'm floating on air

But when your "floating on air" you not playing your piano.  I think thats what the problem is.  The opposite sex is a distraction, and to anyone who can give up, Ill give them a dollar.

[m1469]

love is a very deep emotion which somehow triggers your brain to do, create, and even feel things you couldn't do before.
When I'm in love, all I do is think about that person and suddenly I'm floating on air

I sense a muse, do you have a muse chopin_girl ?  I am envious of you !

[mound]

we all have a muse, if we can reawaken our inner child and learn to play again.