Need recommendations for baby grand

[_jrg_]

I recently moved to my new house, and I have no neighbors, which means I can finally replace my digital piano with an acoustic one!  This is great and all, but due to space constraints in the stairs, I cannot move upstairs anything bigger than a 160 cm grand.  A bigger piano would fit the room, but I cannot move it into the room, so that's not an option.  I want to play a lot, I want to develop my technique (a bit rusty after years spent with my digital piano), I want to play "fast", that's why I'm leaning toward a grand rather than an upright (which allegedly has slower mechanics).  The room is not big, so sound volume is not a problem.  Of course I'm worried about sound quality, especially in the lower keys.  So, my question is, given a budget of about 8000 euro (but I can raise that up a little, if something really worth exists), what would be the best baby grand in your opinion (preferably based on your experience)?  I know a baby grand won't sound like a real grand, so I'm prepared to a compromise: grand like mechanics vs a better sound some high end uprights could give me.

Yamaha GB1? (I read they cut more than one corner to lower the price)...  Kawai GM series?  Older pianos?  Any suggestion is welcome!

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Jonathan.

[visitor]

hmm, not too sure at 160 exactly, but will think about that one, if you can spare just 8 cm, and stretch your budget, the Estonia 168 is probably the finest small grand piano you can buy. period. heck, you could eventually have more room and still not elect to for this small gem of instrument. love this thing. they are a joy to play (i have plaed this and the larger sibling, and i prefer this one actually).  
https://www.estoniapiano.com/168.html

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in your budget, look at  clean used if possibe. consider trying to get a bargain on a well cared for premium piano ie august forester makes a fantastic 160

but look also at maybe an almost new middle of the road piano, it is hard to beat kawai rx line. the millenium action is probably the sweetest and best technological innovation to hit the piano in 100 years. i would put it in front of a renner action.  also, kawai are workhorse pianos, will last and are less finicky. most bang for your buck, but again would go for rx like over standard.  if you look at yamaha, consider getting a kemble, they are dressed up yammy's, nice sound and like the look of their plate colors over the stand yamaha.

[iansinclair]

and don't overlook older used pianos.  Depending on just how finicky you are about appearance you can sometimes find an older piano in that size range with excellent tone and action for pretty decent prices.  I have, for example, a 90 year old Steinway M.  Looks pretty horrible, but the sound and action are still right up there.

That siad, the Estonia is a very fine piano, too.

[hfmadopter]

I'm not sure if you know how grand pianos are moved but you might be surprised what can be moved where. They take off the lid, the music rest, take the action out, the pedal lyre off and the legs off. The body of the piano is strapped to a moving skid set up on it's side ( looks kind of like an over grown skate board). It can be moved into some pretty unexpected spots that way and then set back up once where you want it.. A good sized grand is actually easier to move than many uprights.

The difference in sound and overall playability between a Steinway S ( the size you mention being able to fit) and an M model is substantial FWIW. The M is not that much bigger but has a fuller overall tone and better/ stronger/richer bass. This is often the case in those size ranges of grand pianos in general. Of course there are exceptions in either direction.

I would second that the RX or really Kawai's Millennium action is very good . A Kawai, very generally speaking, tends to be a bit warmer sounding piano than most Yamaha's, FWIW. Depends what you want there.

There are uprights with pretty fast action, i haven't played any of them but they say there are. it's just easier to find a grand with that feature. The big difference is even within model of all acoustic pianos. Some are heavier and some are lighter action. Proper regulation would go a long ways towards the result you are looking for though. And when I say grand I mean from many makers. You need to try out a bunch of pianos I think. get some quotes on moving them etc. Exciting !!

[quantum]

Have you considered inquiring with a pro piano mover to what size piano they can move into your desired space?   It would be a shame to find out they are able to move a much larger piano after you had made an instrument selection.  Grands can actually get through some pretty tight spaces with the proper knowhow.  Also don't rule out a crane move through the window.  

Completely agree with the comments above of the Kawai / Shigeru Millenium III action.  I have personally not played a more responsive, articulate, and refined action than the Millenium III.  It easily beats out actions you would find on commonplace concert hall instruments.  

[_jrg_]

Probably I should have mentioned it... I already had a professional piano mover come to my house and see what grand piano can be possibly moved upstairs.  I was about to buy a used kawai KG 2D which was in my opinion a great deal (~5000 euro, for an instrument bought in 1991 with a very warm tone).  But I first asked the most renowned piano movers here in Florence to asses the possibility to move it into my room... I also prepared a huge card box to perform a live test... and no, there's a very narrow landing where the piano can't be overturned.

The Estonia 168 looks and sounds great, I can stretch the budget, but I cannot stretch the walls...

The RX 1 is a bit of a gamble, at 164 cm... but I could give the GM 12 a try, what do you think?  From the kawai website I read it's like a GM 10 baby grand, plus the millennium action.  The only problem is that I don't seem to find any dealer here in Italy selling it...

I also found a used Schimmel 155 of the early 70's, do you have any opinion about this particular piano/maker?

Thank you for all your thoughts!

--
Jonathan.

[_jrg_]

For the records, I finally bought that Schimmel 155... marvelous tone for such a small instrument, great conditions... looking forward to having it in my living room!

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Jonathan.